Tuesday, January 22, 2013

Atheists to encourage Bible reading!

Atheists plan to give Florida schoolkids free atheist literature as a response to free Bibles being given out.  I doubt that either will be much read  -- with one exception.  The atheists are giving out a book titled: “An X-Rated Book: Sex & Obscenity in the Bible.”.  That would interest any kid and should lead to more Bible reading!

Atheists in Orange County, Fla., are taking the Bible to task. Central Florida Freethought (CFF), a local, secular group associated with the Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), plans to distribute atheist books in public schools after a religious organization began giving away free Bibles in 11 of the county’s public schools. At least one of the literary works, “An X-Rated Book: Sex & Obscenity in the Bible,” is sure to raise eyebrows.

Under the district’s rules, outside groups — believing and non-believing, alike — are invited to hand out faith-based materials. However, representatives of various organizations are not allowed to have contact with students. They can, however, setup a table and leave the materials for consumption. Information that includes pornographic material and references that tout tobacco, alcohol and drugs will not be allowed.

Considering these banned subjects, the FFRF’s book, “An X-Rated Book: Sex & Obscenity in the Bible,” will likely raise the ire of critics. The title alone leads one to wonder if the contents will render it unacceptable.



Anonymous said...

How are atheists any different than those who would push their religious beliefs and opinions on you?

Anonymous said...

As with all those on the far-left, they are more vicious and violent. If your cause is just, why then must you force people to agree with you, and hate those who do not, as atheists do?

Bird of Paradise said...

Athiests need their books shoved up their backsides and annon 1:53 needs to stop reading this darwinists poppycock

Anonymous said...

If they're actually handing out X rated literature to kids they need to be arrested and thrown in jail.

Anonymous said...

Religionists don't like to get pushed down their collective throats the same kind of medicine they've been pouring down the gullets of the credulous and ignorant for centuries. As for indoctrinating children, even the Jesuits said "give me the child for 7 years and we'll give you the man (paraphrasing).

Anonymous said...

The first 5 books:
17:9-14 Circumcision mandated
19:1-8 Rape virgins instead of male angels
19:30-38 Righteous man impregnates his 2 daughters while drunk
24:2-3, 9 Place your hand "under the thigh" (sexual organs) of someone swearing sacred oaths
25:1-6 Keeping mistresses is not adultery
32:25 God grabs Jacob's testicles
34:1-31 Brothers are riled when sister is defiled
35:2 Reuben sleeps with father's concubine
38:1-10 Onan's method of birth control not approved
38:12-30 Tamar plays the harlot to seduce father-in-law
39:1-20 Women tries to rape man
47:29 Joseph ordered to place his hand under father's thigh
20:26 God specifies building of altar to prevent exposure of nakedness
22:19 Death decreed for bestiality
33:17-23 God moons Moses
31:1-18; 28-47 God commands genocide of Midianites, Moses orders that virgins be kept, other captives slain
5:11-31 God's fidelity test for women only
12:1-8 Bible calls childbirth a sin and bearing females a greater sin than bearing males
15:16-18 Sperm and intercourse are unclean
15:19-33 Menstruation unclean; elaborate rules
15:29-30 Women must make sin offering for menstrual periods
18:22 Homosexuality declared an abomination
18:23 More bestiality
19:1,20-22 Man gets forgiven, slave girl gets flogging
20:10 Adulterers shall be put to death
20:13 Death decreed for homosexuals
20:15-16 Death decreed for bestiality (& beast)
26:29 Curse: Eat your sons and daughters
3:1-7 Kill men, women, & children
21:10-14 God okays captured maidens as trial wives
22:5 Men's clothing not to be worn by women, & vice versa
22:13-21 A bride not a virgin must die
22:23-26 Virgin raped in city given no pity
23:12-14 Defecation: Carry paddle, dig hole, & cover up
25:5-10 Woman has cause to spit in man's face
25:11-12 A woman shall have her hand cut off for touching a penis
22:28-29 Paying father to have sex with daughter
23:1 Man "wounded in the stones" can't enter congregation
23:2 Children born out of wedlock condemned as bastards to 10th generation
23:10-11 Cleanliness called for in nocturnal emissions
24:1 Man can divorce wife through eviction
28:27 Hemorrhoids ("emerods") punishment for sin
28:30 Lord's curse: Another man shall lie with groom's bride first
28:53-57 Curse: Eat your own body & children

Stan B said...

Anonymous 8:33AM, you're reference to Onan is a complete misreading of the text. It was not Onan's METHOD of birth control that was the sin, it was his practice of Birth Control at all to avoid his duties as a brother that was the cause of his punishment.

Geeze, and you claim to be an intellectual.

Stan B said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Go Away Bird said...


Anonymous said...

Stan B,

That's all you got? LOL

Anonymous said...

Since Go Sway Bird hates science so much, he/she/it should stop using all technology created by science. In other words, Bird, get the hell off the internet.

Use the Name, Luke said...

Okay, let's take a look at some of the entries 8:33 is trying to use to slam Christianity. (I don't have time for all of them.)

17:9-14 Circumcision mandated

Health benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks for newborns, doctors say

Recent research bolstering evidence that circumcision reduces chances of infection with HIV and other sexually spread diseases, urinary tract infections and penis cancer influenced the academy to update their 13-year-old policy.

19:1-8 Rape virgins instead of male angels

The Bible is not just list of commands. It is also a book of history. It describes events that happened, sometimes condemning a described action, sometimes praising an action, but frequently making no commentary at all. This is an example of the latter (though the entire society had already been condemned). DEscription is not the same thing as PREscription.

19:30-38 Righteous man impregnates his 2 daughters while drunk

First, note that Lot was only "righteous" relative to the people of Sodom. (He refused to submit to the every single other person's attempt to brutalize his visitors.)

Second, Lot's daughter's deliberately got him drunk enough that he couldn't tell who they were.

Third, that passage indicates that the resulting children were the start of the nations of the Moabites and the Ammonites; a shameful start to two nations that were so evil that they were also condemned to destruction.

24:2-3, 9 Place your hand "under the thigh" (sexual organs) of someone swearing sacred oaths
47:29 Joseph ordered to place his hand under father's thigh

See above, descriptive vs. prescriptive.

25:1-6 Keeping mistresses is not adultery

Again, descriptive vs. prescriptive. This passage does not say it's not adultery.

32:25 God grabs Jacob's testicles

That's not what it says. The word that could mean "thigh" is imprecise; it refers to the entire area. That word is paired with another word that means "hollow (usualy referring to the hollow formed in a hand) or socket". It also describes what was touched as being dislocated/alienated. That leaves only the hip joint, which is how all modern translations translate that passage.

This is an attempt to impose a nonsensical meaning on the text. (Note: if it had been his testicles, it would have left him infertile, which makes no sense given what had been promised about him.)

34:1-31 Brothers are riled when sister is defiled

Gee, ya think?!? Brothers getting retribution for their sister being raped. (Remember, no police, no court system.)

35:2 Reuben sleeps with father's concubine

The reference is wrong. It's 35:22.

Again, descriptive vs. prescriptive.

Use the Name, Luke said...

38:1-10 Onan's method of birth control not approved

Copied from the "Apologetics Study Bible" for the sake of time:

Two questions might arise in connection with this passage: (1) Why did Judah have his son, Onan, sleep with Tamar, his widowed daughter-in-law, and then withhold his remaining son, Shelah, from her? (2) Why was Onan killed for “evil” behavior after having sexual relations with Tamar? In regard to (1), an established institution of the culture was the “levirate marriage,” in which a widow was to be taken as wife by the closest male in her husband’s family. Any children from that marriage would be legally considered those of the deceased husband. This practice was made part of the Mosaic law (Dt 25:5–10) and is central in the book of Ruth. Thus, what Judah did in giving Tamar to Onan was morally appropriate, while stalling in regard to Shelah was not. As to (2), the “evil” which caused Onan to be killed was not, as some have said, that he had sex outside marriage or that he practiced a crude form of birth control (vv. 9–10). Rather, it was his selfishness in refusing to allow his sister-in-law to become pregnant by him. He knew that, while he would have to support the child, he would not receive any of his deceased brother’s estate, since it would legally belong to the child.

38:12-30 Tamar plays the harlot to seduce father-in-law

Again, descriptive vs. prescriptive.

39:1-20 Women tries to rape man

Not quite descriptive vs. prescriptive, though there is a lot of that in there. The prescriptive in there is Joseph pointing out that what she was trying to do was "wicked".

20:26 God specifies building of altar to prevent exposure of nakedness

What a twisted description! Look at the passage:

‘If you make me an altar of stone, you shall not build it of hewn stones, for if you wield your tool on it you profane it. And you shall not go up by steps to my altar, that your nakedness be not exposed on it.’
— Exodus 20:25–26

Consider the clothing of the time. In a hot environment, robes were worn to keep out the heat with very little (or nothing) underneath to stay cool. If the priest has to climb steps to reach an altar, worshipers on the ground would be able to "see up his skirt"; never a good thing for an environment of worship.

I play in an orchestra. Young women occasionally need to be reminded not to wear short skirts on stage for the very same reason.

22:19 Death decreed for bestiality

You think bestiality is okay?!? Wow…

33:17-23 God moons Moses

Another twisted description! I'll simply let the passage speak for itself:

And the LORD said to Moses, “This very thing that you have spoken I will do, for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name.” Moses said, “Please show me your glory.” And he said, “I will make all my goodness pass before you and will proclaim before you my name ‘The LORD.’ And I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show mercy on whom I will show mercy. But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.” And the LORD said, “Behold, there is a place by me where you shall stand on the rock, and while my glory passes by I will put you in a cleft of the rock, and I will cover you with my hand until I have passed by. Then I will take away my hand, and you shall see my back, but my face shall not be seen.”
— Exodus 33:17–23

The word translated as "back" does not mean the part exposed by "mooning".

That's it. I'm out of time. There are a lot more passages listed by 8:33. A quick look through them shows that they are also similar distortions and misrepresentations of what the Bible actually says.

Kee Bird said...

ORIGION OF THE SPECIES is what inspired both HITLER and STALIN

Anonymous said...

THE BIBLE is what inspired the Inquisition and witch-burning and the suppression of scientific discoveries.

Use the Name, Luke said...

Again? You just keep rolling out the same discredited trope over and over?

When a student does the exact opposite of what they are taught, the teacher is not responsible for their behavior. That would be like saying that M.A.D.D. and S.A.D.D. cause drunk driving. "Torturing for Christ" violates the Bible's teachings.

As for "suppression of scientific discoveries", haven't you ever noticed that the scientific method and the majority of resulting discoveries came from cultures where Christianity dominated, and nowhere else? There's a reason for that.

Anonymous said...

And torturing a few dissenting "heretics" as well!

Anonymous said...

Wow Luke, many important scientific discoveries also appeared in an Islamic culture, does that validate Islam?! Ever heard of Galileo or Bruno, or those accused of witchcraft by the Church for merely conducting scientific investigation or questioning the dogma of the Church? Science evolved DESPITE the backward religious culture that clever scientists found themselves living in.

Anonymous said...

And what about pagan Greek and Persian and Chinese scientific discoveries, etc.?!

Use the Name, Luke said...

Great… More off-topic and dishonest cargo cult trolling. Try learning what "begging the question" and the "no 'true' Scotsman" fallacies actually are.

Here's some help:

Begging the Question

No True Scotsman

Use the Name, Luke said...

Islam tended to conquer Christian areas that had scientific growth rather than grow it themselves. Some Arabs did a wonderful job in running with what they learned from those they conquered. But as the culture of Islam settled in and tightened its grip in these areas, the rate of scientific discovery dropped off.

Part of that is because of Islam's view of God and the world. They don't view Allah as consistent, but capricious. Allah changes his mind on a whim. (This is called the doctrine of abrogation.) Islam is also extremely authoritative, supressing all questioning of their holy books.

By comparison, Christianity teaches that God is consistent…

Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.
— James 1:17

Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
— Hebrews 13:8

…it encourages learning and research…

An intelligent heart acquires knowledge,
and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.

— Proverbs 18:15

Apply your heart to instruction
and your ear to words of knowledge.

— Proverbs 23:12

Let the wise hear and increase in learning,
and the one who understands obtain guidance,

— Proverbs 1:5

…it even encourages testing and digging into the scriptures:

Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica; they received the word with all eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see if these things were so.
— Acts 17:11

“Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD:
— Isaiah 1:18

but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you;
— 1 Peter 3:15

That last verse has prompted an entire field of study known as Apologetics. Being able to "give a reason" requires studying science and its interactions with The Bible, plus questions and arguments raised against it.

It's the Bible's pushing of Christians into the world of knowledge and study in a world of unchanging structure that encourages the kind of inquiry that leads to the growth of science. Islam's authoritarian suppression of all questioning, even to support "Muslim Apologetics" tends to suppress exactly the kind of inquiry needed for scientific growth.

That's why Islam's only greatness in science was due to conquering Christian areas that were already excelling, only to see the scientific inquiry fade away as Islamic thought became ingrained. You can see that effect today. In the countries where Islam is most dominant, they are the most technologically backwards and scientifically barren.

Here is a more thorough examination of the topic (complete with sources). (Yes, I know you'll use the genetic fallacy to reject the argument due to the source. It doesn't make it any less valid.)

Use the Name, Luke said...

I note that you only listed two names.

I have to admit that I had never heard of Bruno before, so I had to look up Bruno. In the process I made a few discoveries. One was this:

in 1600 there was no official Catholic position on the Copernican system, and it was certainly not a heresy.
— from the Standford Encyclopedia of Philosophy

The standard atheist claim is that Galileo was supposedly persecuted by the Roman Catholic Church for pushing the Copernican view of the solar system. And based on what I found about Bruno, that's obviously the claim for him as well. But obviously, if the Roman Catholic Church was okay with the idea of the Earth circling the Sun, then that's not what these men were persecuted for.

But in looking over Bruno's views on theology, he believed things that clearly contradict core teachings of Christianity. For example:

- Pantheism - The belief that everything is God. Christianity is Monotheism, there is one God who is distinct from his creation.

- Jesus was not God - The very center of Christianity.

- There is no soul - The Bible says otherwise.

His beliefs were clearly heretical. But the Bible teaches that heretics are to be tossed out of church fellowship, not tortured and killed. The RCC was wrong in doing that. (Part of the reason I am not a Catholic.)

But he did like pissing people off. He apparently managed to severely irritate just about everyone he came in contact with, a trait he shared with Galileo. (Which was apparently Galileo's biggest problem. He kept making enemies, even out of friends, including the Pope who tried to protect him.)

Note that Bruno was a particularly good scientist. His primary focus was apparently attacking the Church, and only latched onto Copernicanism as a cudgel than as a valid theory based on observation.

Bruno was brilliant, contentious, and ultimately self-destructive. There is nothing in his writings that contributed to our knowledge of astronomy in any substantial way, and indeed his astronomical writings reveal a poor grasp of the subject on several important points. I think we pay attention to him today in large measure because among other things he vocally espoused (but apparently did not really understand) Copernicanism, an idea which was to become the key insight that led to our present view of the world.
The Folly of Giordano Bruno, Ohio State Astronomy department

So let's bring up a few more names:

Sir Franics Bacon - Formalized the scientific method. Christian.

Isaac Newton - Discovered the laws of motion. Christian.

Blaise Pascal - Mathematician. Physicist. Christian. Was writing a defense of Christianity when he died. (Penses)

Louis Pasteur - Developed the process of pasteurization and part of the first vaccines. Christian.

Johannes Kepler - Laws of planetary motion. Christian.

René Descartes - Geometry. Developed the Cartesian coordinate system. Christian.

Charles Babbage - Developer of the Difference Engine, an early computer. Christian.

Gregor Mendel - "Father of modern genetics". Christian.

Max Planck - The founder of Quantum mechanics. Christian.

And many, many, many more

Use the Name, Luke said...

For the record, those last two comments had originally been written and posted Saturday night, but had been incorrectly flagged by the spam filter.

Anonymous said...

Luke - get it into your thick skull that pre-conceived religion has nothing to do with objective scientific discoveries. You woffle all you want with your biased views about philosophy and history and trying to bad-mouth historical personages - it "don't" alter what is real about the World and the Cosmos that SCIENCE is trying to discover while religion is trying to confine it to the small-mindedness of ignorant humans like yourself (who call themselves "religious").

Anonymous said...

So I guess it was ok to burn to death poor old Bruno for not agreeing with the Christian Church?! So in that case why disagree today with Islamic punishments for heresy and blasphemy?!

Anonymous said...

Who the F*** is this Luke-guy who seems to have so much time and motivation to dig up and type out endless biased sources and opinions to support his extremely biased view of Christianity? He seems to be a fundamentalist or creationist. So maybe he is a "pastor" financially supported by a credulous congregation - ?

Use the Name, Luke said...

4:58 - That's a bald assertion. Furthermore, it does not match reality and history.

5:05 - Read my 10:39 comment again. You obviously missed what I said.

5:19 - As predicted, Genetic Fallacy. Plus Ad Hominem Fallacy.

Anonymous said...

Amazing (nay ironic) that Luke should list Gregor Mendel, as it was the Church authorities that destroyed all his research papers left in his monastery after he died, as they had long disapproved of the scientific research he was doing, and it was almost forgotten until later geneticists realized its fundamental significance. Yeah Luke, Christianity is truly the handmaiden of Science (btw. that's sarcasm!).

Anonymous said...

Luke also cites René Descartes. He was also intimidated by the Christian Church (by the message that the trial of Galileo was intentially meant to send to all who questioned the Church's fixed views on "Science") and so he stopped publishing in France.
Again Luke fails to understand that simply living in a Christian culture doesn't necessarily make people believe in that religion personally or that the prevailing religion promotes scientific inquiry pursued by individuals.
So it's ridiculous that Christians claim credit for what their religion actually suppressed.