Wednesday, December 30, 2009



Another "hate speech" abuse

This time it is a Christian trying to deny free speech to atheists. Leftists are so vocal in claiming that "hate speech" should be stopped that I suppose it became inevitable that some non-Leftists would use the concept in support of THEIR values.
"In Illinois the person who tried to remove the Atheist exhibit in the rotunda of the capitol in Springfield was William Kelly from Chicago. He was stopped from doing so by the Capitol police and was escorted from the building. Kelly is a conservative Republican. He said the Atheist exhibit was "hate speech" and that's why he tried to take it down.

Kelly said, "I don't think the State of Illinois has any business denigrating or mocking any religion, and I think that's what the verbiage on the sign was doing."

The sign reads, "At the time of the winter solstice, let reason prevail. There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Source

The wording is undoubtedly offensive to Christians but there is no right not to be offended.

If the wording had been directed at an Islamic celebration, however, it would undoubtedly not have lasted 5 minutes. Should Christians start blowing atheists up? That seems to be the lesson from all this "hate speech" nonsense. What is hate speech against Muslims is not hate speech against Christians.

45 comments:

Use the Name, Luke said...

"If the wording had been directed at an Islamic celebration, however, it would undoubtedly not have lasted 5 minutes."

The Danish cartoons led to widespread rioting by the Muslims, though with fake cartoons added by their imams. In this case, this statement also opposes them. So it could just be shown to the Muslims without modification and lead to anger on their part.

Of course, the atheists' statement is wrong in every detail, but they're allowed to be wrong. Of course, they would have to bear the consequences of being wrong.

For example:

"Religion is just myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds."

Which explains why Christians led the charge against slavery in Britain and here. Which explains why Christians give more money to charity. Which explains why Christian organizations have always led the way in taking care of the needy.

Wait-a-minit… Enslaving minds leads to a push to end slavery? Hmmmm… What a contradiction.

Sir Isaac Newton, Sir Francis Bacon, Louis Pasteur, Blaise Pascal, George Washington, James Madison, Patrick Henry, John Adams. (This list only scratches the surface.) All christians. All examples of "hardened hearts and enslaved minds." Would that we all "suffered" such hearts and minds.

The Victory of Reason: How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and Western Success

Anonymous said...

Ah, the good old days, when atheists were burned at the stake. And, since the planet is actually cooling, not warming, this would be a great time to reintroduce this time-honored tradition.

Anonymous said...

What happened to the free exchange of ideas - here on these posts I only read bias and prejudice!

Use the Name, Luke said...

Anon 3:16,

Where you referring to Nero?

Use the Name, Luke said...

"Kelly said, "I don't think the State of Illinois has any business denigrating or mocking any religion, and I think that's what the verbiage on the sign was doing.""

He might have a point if that was the only display permitted. According to the source (which was more opinion piece than news article) it was one of several displays.

"…the State of Illinois did not sponsor the sign, it simply allowed it to be placed among the other holiday exhibits…"

On the other hand, if the left thinks it's acceptable to use "hate speech" as an excuse to silence Christians, then they shouldn't have any problem with suffering their own loss of free speech under the same standard.

Anonymous said...

2:53 am - Yep, much like the way Communism led to the fall of the Berlin Wall -so Christianity led to the European Enlightenment. Amazing how an ideology claims credit for supporting what most of the time it resisted!

Use the Name, Luke said...

Riiiiight… So by your reasoning, the Jews were responsible for the Holocaust…

How do you explain away the fact that Christians are overrepresented among the leading thinkers of history?

Anonymous said...

"How do you explain away the fact that Christians are overrepresented among the leading thinkers of history?"

Great thinkers were members of the religion dujour.

Use the Name, Luke said...

But you claim that religion interferes with/resists great thinking. That's a contradiction.

Anonymous said...

Different anon, dumbass

Use the Name, Luke said...

Riiiight… Prove it.

If you don't want to be confused with someone else, don't insist on hiding behind "Anonymous".

Anonymous said...

"Riiiight… Prove it."

Fuck you, asswipe.

Use the Name, Luke said...

Ohhh, can't take the heat? Maybe you should reexamine your thinking.

Bobby said...

"How do you explain away the fact that Christians are overrepresented among the leading thinkers of history?"

---Good point, I don't remember the last time I saw an atheist going to some godforsaken country in Africa to feed the hungry and heal the sick.

Liberal atheists may show up once in a while for a photo opportunity, but their humanitarian actions are a joke compared to what Christians do. That's why even Obama supports faith-based charities, even he knows that the liberal atheists are more interested in saving animals than people.

Use the Name, Luke said...

Bobby,

It doesn't take a great thinker to have great compassion. I was focusing more on the intellectual side, even though Christianity has had an impact on both sides.

You're correct in pointing out that Christians have taken a lead in serving the poor for millennia, but you can't get there from my argument about leading scientists, philosophers and leaders. You can, however, get there by looking at the driving force behind serving the poor throughout history.

Bobby said...

I see what you mean, Luke, and you're right.

Kevin said...

The difference between the Christian display and the atheist's display is that the atheist's attacked religion and the Christian display was celebrating the holiday. If the Christians put up a sign saying Atheism is evil and atheists are going to hell the state would never have allowed it to be put up because it was attacking people and hate speech.

Use the Name, Luke said...

Good point, Kevin.

Anonymous said...

Christians doing "good works" often promote their religion along with it. I don't think atheists and the non-religious promote their "world view" in exchange for help. That Mother Theresa, for example, made a virtue out of poverty and suffering on the level of masochism, but even she ended up doubting her "faith".

Use the Name, Luke said...

"I don't think atheists and the non-religious promote their "world view" in exchange for help."

No. They just promote it all the time, everywhere (not just when giving help), and their favorite tactic is pretending that it's a "neutral" position and somehow "free of bias" when that's just not the case.

Anonymous said...

So when "Tide" does good work by sending their trucks full of washing machines to areas without electricity, they are not allowed to plaster "Tide" all over the side of the truck?

If it is a private organization, they can promote whatever they want when they do their "good works."

"Nobel" peace prize and "Carnegie" Hall, are just two examples. Are you saying that just because a religion is involved they are not allowed to let people know?

Anonymous said...

Yeah rite! Non-religious people go around the 3rd-world saying here's help but don't believe in god - oh and come and worship in our nearby church to the non-god who will save you from your misery and pagan superstitions!

Bobby said...

"Christians doing "good works" often promote their religion along with it."

---Are they forcing anyone to convert? No. So what's the big deal? If an organization offers you help they have the right to promote their views.


"I don't think atheists and the non-religious promote their "world view" in exchange for help."

---Sure they do, atheists love refering to religion as a delusion, they set up websites to ridicule the bible, they make movies like Religioulous that insult religions, in the atheists states of China, Cuba and the former USSR they do everything they can to ridicule religion and persecute believers.

In the "free world" they want to remove religion from public view.

Anonymous said...

Religious organizations take advantage of vulnerable people in a "captive audience" situation in order to promote their religion, whether or not the methods can be considered coercive. The instances you cite such as websites, books, films, etc. that put down religion and superstition are not aimed at or taking advantage of people in physical or material need, which was the point of the previous comments.

Bobby said...

"Religious organizations take advantage of vulnerable people in a "captive audience" situation in order to promote their religion, whether or not the methods can be considered coercive."

---You are confussing a cult with organized religion. Catholics don't always agree with the Pope, Southern Baptists don't have the same views on every single issue. Real coercion is showing kids the Al Gore movie without presenting opposing points of view. Besides, people are individuals, they have individual views no matter what they learn in school or church.


"The instances you cite such as websites, books, films, etc. that put down religion and superstition are not aimed at or taking advantage of people in physical or material need, which was the point of the previous comments."

---How do you know? The atheist movement is a business just like any other, if Richard Dawkins had his way and was able to ban religion, he would. What they have done with global warming, how they have gotten scientists who disagree fired, how they have ridiculed unbelievers, the dramatic video they used at the Conpenhaggen climate change conference, that's just proof of how dangerous atheists can be.

Anonymous said...

"You are confussing a cult with organized religion."

Absolutely no difference between the two.

Anonymous said...

How has the climate-change debate anything to do with religion or christianity - especially at the recent summit in Copenghagen?
You also admit that religionists are all at sea between themselves as to what is "truth"!
Also again you mis-represent Dawkins who is happy to be a "cultural christian" (his own words)as that is what he was raised as, and has said many times publically that he would never want to "ban" religion (only wishing they didn't asttack other points of view - often very violently).
I think this is yet another case of deliberate misrepresentation by the theist promoters posting here!
And wow - when was the last time you ever saw any "christian" meeting showing some kind of alternative view of religion, much less about another particular denomination/sect ?!

Bobby said...

"You are confussing a cult with organized religion."

Absolutely no difference between the two.

---Well, there are huge differences, cults rarely let you leave yet the Mormon church can and does excomunicate people. Cults demand you obey their principles a 100% yet the Catholic Church tolerates lots of cafeteria catholics and others that go against church dogma.

Here are some quotes from Richard Dawkins, you be the judge on what kind of a man he is:

“Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence.”

“What has 'theology' ever said that is of the smallest use to anybody? When has 'theology' ever said anything that is demonstrably true and is not obvious? What makes you think that 'theology' is a subject at all?”

It is clear this man hates religion and religious people.

"And wow - when was the last time you ever saw any "christian" meeting showing some kind of alternative view of religion, much less about another particular denomination/sect ?!"

---When was the last time you saw people of science investigating miraculous cures based on religion? When was the last time they investigated the paranormal without calling the victims of evil entities a bunch of deluded fools?

Science can't explain everything, science doesn't have all the answers, religion can feel a void in those areas.

Scientists like Dawkins dismiss what they haven't experienced. It's like saying "I don't believe in ghosts because I've never seen one." Well, I've never seen an atom and yet I believe in them.

I believe religion has value, it wasn't scientist that came up with the ten commandments for example. And what good is science when people are afraid? If a meteor was headed for earth do you think the average guy is going to be calling his local astronomist? Everyone knows people turn to religion in times of crisis.

Anonymous said...

Oh wow Bobby - that's sad - you're certainly deep in the sink of religious delusion/emotional compensation)

Use the Name, Luke said...

Oh wow Anonymous - that's sad - you're certainly deep in the sink of atheistic delusion/emotional compensation)

Anonymous said...

oh wow Luke - you're certainly deep in the sink of pathetic retorts!

Use the Name, Luke said...

Congratulations on recognizing how pathetic it was. It was no less pathetic than when you used it the first time.

Anonymous said...

Luke - do you ever give up your pointless crap? Oh, let me make a wild prediction - your limitless imagination will just again turn this post around! I repeat - give it up - you're boring!

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