Atheists and agnostics suing over the federal law designating a National Day of Prayer.
We read:
"The Freedom From Religion Foundation sued Friday in U.S. district court, arguing that the president's mandated proclamations calling on Americans to pray violates a constitutional ban on government officials endorsing religion. The day of prayer, held each year on the first Thursday of May, creates a "hostile environment for nonbelievers, who are made to feel as if they are political outsiders," the lawsuit said. The national proclamation issued this year asked God's blessings on our country and called for Americans to observe the day with appropriate programs, ceremonies and activities.
Wisconsin Gov. Jim Doyle is named in the suit because he is one of 50 governors who issued proclamations calling for the prayer day. The foundation is based in Madison. Shirley Dobson, chairwoman of the National Day of Prayer Task Force, and White House press secretary Dana Perino also are named.
The foundation has filed numerous lawsuits in recent years, including one rejected by the U.S. Supreme Court last year that attacked President Bush's faith-based initiative.
The White House and Doyle spokesman Lee Sensenbrenner had no comment on the lawsuit. A message seeking comment from the task force was not returned Friday.
Source
26 comments:
Being someone who does not follow any orthodox belief, I tend to take exception to relgious groups trying to pass religious mandates. Examples being the gay marriage ban currently being fought in Clifornia, and the Knights of Columbus adding "under God" to the Pledge of Allegiance (that right, it is not in the orginal writing). But, I do not try to limit ones rights to believe in what they choose either, and this is just plain silly and is what causes the athiests ans agnostics to be ridiculed. The National Day of Prayer does not endorse any one Religion, nor does it FORCE anyone to participate. Then again, why do we need a National Day for poeple to follow their faith to begin with???
OK, so let's all make it really fair. Just institute a "National I don't believe in any higher power Day" so that those who don't believe in God can remain silent as they contemplate their feeble existence as they ponder their inevitable rotting dirt nap.
"Then again, why do we need a National Day for poeple to follow their faith to begin with???"
Because the United States of America was founded on the belief in God, and that belief is important to most of its citizens.
The Declaration of Independence recognizes God by using the terms "Creator" and "Nature's God".
The U.S. Constitution recognizes that religion is important by listing it in the first amendment. Not second or fifth, but first. Lists seen in manuscripts and documents historically are ordered in the order of importance.
And the U.S. Constitution further recognizes Christianity with its concluding date reference to "the year of our Lord".
So, the God-less will not be happy until we're all God-less? Of course, that is their ultimate goal, a goal that will never be realized.
The God-less have the right not to believe, but apparently they don't feel we have the right to believe! If they're smart, they'll enjoy their right. Quietly.
How can atheists get upset over something that they say doesn't exist?
ED
Because it's made into a NATIONAL day - and presuming everyone SHOULD "pray". It's entirely unnecesary when people can pray in their own places of worship if they wish.
Wow! You only have to pray one day a year?
yep pray for more sane national days
Just institute a "National I don't believe in any higher power Day"
Make that an "I myself AM God!" day for athiests. Because that's what they really believe, that they are the most important being in the universe.
I feel sorry for them, because one day they will stand before the throne as I will, but their disbelief will be shown for the foolishness that it is. But it will be too late...
Of course the only thing the constitution says is that the federal government (NOT the states!) shall not force people to adhere to any specific religion.
It nowhere states that the government cannot ask people to pray, as long as it doesn't require that prayer and require it to be to a specific god according to a specific religion's rules.
"I feel sorry for them, because one day they will stand before the throne as I will, but their disbelief will be shown for the foolishness that it is. But it will be too late..."
oh yes - you know that do you? More like you'll stand in front of the throne of "Justify Your Extremely Arrogant Assertions that Belittle Other Human Beings"!!!
oh yes - you know that do you? More like you'll stand in front of the throne of "Justify Your Extremely Arrogant Assertions that Belittle Other Human Beings"!!!
Those "Arrogant Assertions" come from the Bible and not from me.
No, I am saved by grace and not be anything that I deserve or earned, so I cannot be arrogant about it. If I got what I deserved/earned then I would receive eternal death as well.
God offers a free gift of eternal life with him, but as in any gift, it must be accepted or rejected. The only difference is that I have accepted his gift, and I suppose from your heated response that you have not. I have nothing to be arrogant about, only thankful for a gracious and living God that loves both you and me.
Contrary to what some said here, the National Day of Prayer does not REQUIRE people to pray. Never did, never will. It just acknowledges that this country was founded on the generally accepted fact that most believe in God. If you don't want to pray (believer, atheist or otherwise) then don't.
It's not like Black History Month requires us all to go out and find blacks to compliment, or acknowledge.
"Because it's made into a NATIONAL day - and presuming everyone SHOULD "pray". It's entirely unnecesary when people can pray in their own places of worship if they wish."
The point is so that like minded people can get together on that day and promote something 'good'. This nation is so divided on everything from global warming to taxation, that something promoting unity is a good idea...and a cheap one at that.
Just for a bit of clarification on the CA Gay Marriage 'ban'...
The people voted on an initiative and it passed. 4 judges on the state Supreme Court decided that gay marriage was protected in the CA Constitution and overturned the will of the people who voted on the initiative before. Funny, the state Constitution doesn't mention gay marriage so its hard to understand how that could be unconstitutional. Now, two different camps: people against gay marriage and people against legislation by judicial fiat have created an initiative that puts the same language as the original initiative in the state constitution. Further, the attorney general used political games to change the title of this initiative and the short description of it, which is the most that many voters will read. Funny, I don't recall previous attorney generals changing the names of initiatives to suit their political stripe! Initiatives that raised revenues were not renamed as 'Tax Increase to Support [Cause].'
I asked my boss for National Prayer Day off with pay.
He said: You haven't got a prayer!
"Make that an "I myself AM God!" day for athiests. Because that's what they really believe, that they are the most important being in the universe."
That's rich when you assert you are specially chosen and favored by the creator of the entire universe and all beyond. Atheists (note spelling) make no such claims and do not regard themselves as "the most important being(s) in the universe". Agnosticism would be a more intellectually honest position in admitting we can know nothing for certain, whereas atheism might appear as dogmatic as theism if it suggests there cannot be a "god".
"The point is so that like minded people can get together on that day and promote something 'good'. This nation is so divided on everything from global warming to taxation, that something promoting unity is a good idea...and a cheap one at that."
So true. To do otherwise would be completely hypocritical. If you get rid of NDoP, then you must get rid of Black History month, Gay Pride Day, and all all other "special interest" group acknowledgment days. Fair is fair.
Besides, no one is refusing a "National Atheist Day" are they?
Consider the conservative, evangelical, redneck, living-in-the-past state of South Carolina: They have a license plate sporting an "In God We Trust" design. No complaints there because you can also get an "In Reason We Trust" plate.
"Of course the only thing the constitution says is that the federal government (NOT the states!) shall not force people to adhere to any specific religion."
No, what the Constitution ACTUALLY says is that, "the government shall establish no religion". But i also recall something about "the God-less shall be hanged from tall trees", but i don't recall the exact page.
"Then again, why do we need a National Day for poeple to follow their faith to begin with???"
Because the United States of America was founded on the belief in God, and that belief is important to most of its citizens
My arguement in this comment was not to be against religion, I guees the rest of my comment about supporting OTHERS in their beliefs was not clear.
The point of was, why do we need a National Day of prayer to tell people to pray, are they not convicted enough in their beliefs to do this of their own accord?
And, most of you supporters, are just as bad as the ones trying to fight it. You belittle those who don not follow your beliefs more so than no believers. So many times I hear that I am not a good person because I do not go to church or read the Bible. Well, guess what, I have been to many churches, Catholic, Christian, Protestant, Morman. I have read the Bible. And for those of you who think they are better than me, I at least support others in their faith, not ridicule and torment them,. So, I guessin reality, I am better than you. I do not judge others for their beliefs. I believe that was covered in the Bible about not judging other lest you be judged yourself?
So out of three hundred sixty-five and a quarter, there's to be one day of prayer designated? And this is a problem? Will there be strongarming ofthose who don't choose to participate or something?
Well there must also be a National Day of Prayer Abstinence - will just one day of not praying out 365 hurt anyone?
Hello Good Gentles All!
Glad to be back.
"..., are they not convicted enough in their beliefs to do this of their own accord?"
The issue is prayer as a group. Our Lord said whenever two or more are gathered in My name. The idea is to pray collectively. It is the same reason we attend Mass together and not stay isolated as individuals. The power of collective prayer is well known and respected. It is also desired by God. As a person who has read the Bible you should know this.
"And, most of you supporters, are just as bad as the ones trying to fight it. You belittle those who don not follow your beliefs more so than no believers."
If one has found the truth is it not an act of generosity to help others do so? I agree that no one should be insulted or belittled or forced and if people are doing that in the Lord's name they are in error. But try not to confuse good intentions with poor execution.
"So many times I hear that I am not a good person because I do not go to church or read the Bible."
Whoeever is speaking to you this way is misguided.
"... I at least support others in their faith, not ridicule and torment them,."
Do not hurt people but offer them help in the faith. If a person's beliefs are misguided then it is only charity to want to help them to the truth.
As one who has, by the grace of God, come to the Lord and who, miserable sinner that I am, still hopes to see God in the face and be with Him in heaven then is it not an act of love to want others to have these same blessings?
"I believe that was covered in the Bible about not judging other lest you be judged yourself?"
This passage has been used countless times by people to absolve themselves of the responsibility of pointing error when they see it. The Bible clearly states that we are to help others in error find the way of truth. Help not make. Humbly not proudly. By free action and not by coercion.
Galatians 6:1
"Brothers, even if a person is caught in some transgression, you who are spiritual should correct that one in a gentle spirit, looking to yourself, so that you also may not be tempted."
You can make no judgement about whether someone is bound for heaven or not but you do him no favor by supporting him in his error. You have an obligation to point out error where you see it.
Pax,
InFidfes
Mr Infidfes - So if someone thinks you are in error with your beliefs you will, by your own argument, at least listen attentively and reconsider your position??
Hello Good Gentles All!
Hello Anonymous!
I will certainly not insult or attack him. If a person so believes that he is trying to help me then why should I be offended? The only action which would offend me is coercion. This is one of the plethora of problems with islam. Convert or die. Hardly a Godly thing.
When our Lord was advising his Apostles he said for them to preach the Word but that any town which will not hear to shake the dust of that town from their feet. God gave all of us free will and He does not want His Church to violate that. That is why zealots who attempt to force Christianity on others are so misguided.
I will not change my faith but anger or derision or physical violence is not a Christian response to someone proselytizing.
Assuming the person is willing and interested I would engage him in debate regarding his faith and mine. I will happily debate and defend God generally and Christianity specifically against all comers.
Pax Domini Sit Semper Vobiscum,
InFides
InFedis-
You sound like a wise and gentle soul- if all people, of every faith, demonstrated the same attitude, the world would be a far more peaceful place.
I am agnostic, but in no way do I allow myself to become offended by things which are not meant to cause me harm. Our radical atheist bretheren should grow up...
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