U.S. Army Agrees to Host, Pay $50,000 Toward Concert for Atheists
We read:
"In a win for military atheists (or “free thinkers” as they like to be called), U.S. Army officials have come on board to support “Rock Beyond Belief” — a concert being planned for nonbelievers and their enthusiasts at Fort Bragg in North Carolina. This development, which is sure to appease atheists, came after some church-state separation groups petitioned the Secretary of the Army last month.
These groups were upset following support for a Christian concert that was also held at the military installment last September. They claimed that the Evangelical concert gave “selective benefits” to religious groups.
This announcement comes after a group of atheists and skeptics came together at Fort Bragg earlier this year to form Military Atheists and Secular Humanists, or MASH. The group, which meets regularly in homes and bars outside of the military base, has been working toward official recognition as a “faith” group.
The “Rock Beyond Belief” concert was originally supposed to be held last April, but the event was cancelled when the garrison commander refused to authorize it. It was then that the ACLU, Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and other groups chimed in. Now, the event is back on and is slated for March 31, 2012.
Source
Amusing that they want their group defined as a "faith". I guess it is a faith for them. Otherwise the concert is a celebration of nothing!
I am an atheist but I don't need recognition of that. I just go about my business and what other people believe is up to them. So I guess I am a real atheist, unlike the mixed up kids above.
16 comments:
I am not an Atheist, I am a Christian, and I personally do not have any problem with such a gathering PROVIDED that Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and whatever religious organizations who desire to hold similar gatherings are permitted to do so.
John – I find this post most amusing.
On some days I am an atheist although most days I consider myself an agnostic. But like you, I feel no need to impose my beliefs on others. I tend to have a strong attachment to respecting the rights of various religious groups to pray, or not pray, as they see fit. I suppose this comes from my early childhood where I was the outsider for coming from a non-religious family – uncommon in those days.
What I find so amusing about this concept of having atheism defined as a “faith” is that once atheism is recognized as a faith, under the Establishment Clause, as so horrendously currently misapplied, Christians or other sects could appropriately sue to have any support for atheism removed from schools or other public forums. Won’t that be a fun law suit to watch move through the courts and won’t it be fun to see the contortions the ACLU, et. al. resort to in opposing such a suit?
A group coming together with a common belief about deity . Sounds like a church to me . They are getting my government to pay for their shindig with my tax dollars ..er borrowed money ...unbelievable .
ISHGEBOR
If atheism is a religion - and I agree, it is - then the govt cannot compel its symbols to be used.
What symbols are those? Why none at all, of course, meaning the govt cannot force the removal of the symbols of other religions - leaving none at all, symbolizing atheism - any more than it can compel them.
And we then come full circle to "make no law," and return to freedom of, rather than from, religion, as it should be.
So by all means, let's accept atheism as a religion, with the same rights and responsibilities as others.
I think it is damned silly to treat atheism as a holy cause.
The only solution I can think of is to have a theology class that kids/parents can enroll in if they want. It will cover all religions, and point out the similarity's and differences. It will teach kids that everybody just wants to live their life no matter what faith they have chosen or have had imposed onto them.
Religion does not belong in a science classroom. Science is fact based. Religion is not, that's why its called "faith." And "theory's" are not just scientists talking mumbo jumbo... they are based on evidence and deduction and are labeled as such. This is not a quality held by religion. You either believe it or you don't. If you wanna teach creationism it belongs in a theology class. Period.... until there is some concrete evidence that supports otherwise.
These facts are what people don't know because they are continually told by their churches that science is the devil...it tries to disprove religion..etc blah blah blah... it's nonsense and untrue.
And yes, I can't stand the idea of the flying spaghetti monster and I hate when Richard Dawkins gets his little snide remarks in slapping believers in the face. It's not helping the problem, it's just making it bigger.
-The "Troll"
It's funny. I was once a firm atheist and would argue all the time with believers. But I've realized its futile. It's better to try and bridge the gap with understanding. This is the only solution. Everything else is just a waste of time and only creates more problems.
And for the record, I think this concert is stupid. The fact that they are trying to label themselves as a "group" is umm... kind of exactly what they want to avoid when it comes down to it?
People need to understand what atheism is. Until then people will continually think of it as another religious group. Putting atheist on the "other" space on an application is wrong... technically you should cross out the question and put a "N/A" over it, because you are not religious. The lack of faith is not a faith.
When someone asks you what religion you are, don't say "atheist..." Say you don't have a religion. Atheism and religion are incompatible ideas. You can't have both.
I would be interested to know what sort of music was played there. I mean, Christians like a lot of different songs, but at a Christian music festival, you expect specifically religious music to be played. Is there a specifically atheist songs - at least enough to make a festival? If so, I have never heard them. (I am not referring to clearly immoral songs. They are likely to be offensive to atheists as well as believers.)
"Atheism" is a very loosely used term and can be just as various in meaning as "religious" is. A Roman Catholic and a Scientologist or a Quaker have very different views tho' all can be called religious, although being members of a specific church or group they have certain agreed views; whereas most atheists are not members of "atheist" groups or societies and don't have agreed views in the same way as a religious denomination.
It is simply over-stretching the definition of "a religion" or "faith" to call "atheism" that.
Anon 3:36 said;
"True atheists don't believe in anything..."
They obviously believe in something, else they wouldn't be fighting so hard to stop those who do believe in a higher power. So your argument holds no water. No one believes in "nothing". If they believe in their cause, they are "believers".
Troll,
1.A LACK of a belief is not a "belief." The same as how a shadow is not a "dark spot"
A shadow is a dark spot. A dark spot, any dark spot, is simply a spot that reflects less visible light than does its surroundings, for whatever reason. The "absence of light," reflected light, is the same regardless of whether it comes from lower initial input, lower reflected output, or a combination of both.
2. "True atheists don't believe in anything."
Incorrect. I'll resist the urge to riff on your comment, and merely point out that a true atheist believes there is no god.
If, however, you believe in God but question scripture, you are best categorized as a Deist, similar to so many of the American Founding fathers.
3. We know that we are all on this Earth together. Call it hippy bullshit but it's sure as hell a lot closer to what Jesus taught than what most Christians think.
Also incorrect. Jesus taught that we have an immortal soul, that we go to heaven, etc. Have you even read the New Testament? Or are you conflating Jesus and Buddha out of confusion as to who said what?
It appears so. That, alomng with numerous other beginner errors you have made indicate you do not really know many Christians as you certainly don't know much about their beliefs.
4. "If you really believe in separation of church and state, freedom religion, and freedom of speech, you'll stop whining and complaining."
"Separation of church and state" or "Congress shall make no law?" Do you understand the difference and why it is important.
Your confusion is further amplified by the (accidentally on purpose?) omission of the preposition when you referred to "freedom religion." Are you referring to freedom of religion or freedom from religion, which, as noted earlier in the thread, is really the heart of the argument and should not be dodged.
A shadow is a dark spot. A dark spot, any dark spot, is simply a spot that reflects less visible light than does its surroundings, for whatever reason. The "absence of light," reflected light, is the same regardless of whether it comes from lower initial input, lower reflected output, or a combination of both.
People who believe in religion think their belief in god is the only thing that makes them special. Define a "shadow" for me... the only reason you call it a shadow is because of the light which defines its boundaries. Without a sun or any light source, all we would see is black. There is no such thing as a shadow in "reality." We only perceive it as such because we are so used to the idea of light. The same goes for heat and cold. Coldness taken to the extreme (i.e.) absolute 0, is the absence of heat.
Incorrect. I'll resist the urge to riff on your comment, and merely point out that a true atheist believes there is no god.
More pointless banter and semantics. Again the only reason you think that this is the case is because you live in a world where the normal thing to do is to be religious. A TRUE atheist doesn't believe in a god, a religion, anything. The fact that that they feel the need to fly a flag and say "look everybody we're atheist" is exactly the thing they are looking to get away from but they are too stupid to realize this fact.
Your confusion is further amplified by the (accidentally on purpose?) omission of the preposition when you referred to "freedom religion." Are you referring to freedom of religion or freedom from religion, which, as noted earlier in the thread, is really the heart of the argument and should not be dodged.
Ugh you call me confused but trying to make sense of the pointless banter and semantics you are trying to get across it makes it hard to follow.
As far as I know, Jesus came down to show us that you can live your life like him and be happy. He is God, so by trying to be like him, you are removing the hate. Tell me how what I just said is wrong?
stinky: how come you never try and back up your opinion without trying to discredit me by calling me an idiot. Go find some scripture or SOMETHING to show me how I'm misinterpreting the bible/whatever. I really wanna know, back up what you say, or else your words are just garbage filling up my screen.
"I can't explain myself but I know you're wrong. I'm too lazy to try and prove myself right" -stinky
Come on stinky. Bring some evidence to the table.. I'm waiting.
7:51am sounds like something the troll would write.
Jon can you turn off anonymous posting so we can stop listening to this troll talk to himself?
A shadow is a dark spot. A dark spot, any dark spot, is simply a spot that reflects less visible light than does its surroundings, for whatever reason. The "absence of light," reflected light, is the same regardless of whether it comes from lower initial input, lower reflected output, or a combination of both.
I wanna come back to this. Again... a shadow is what is left when you ignore the light (i.e. the Sun or "God") orrrr... it could mean that there was no "light" in the first place. (i.e. there there is no God."
This is how Atheism works... at least how it SHOULD work... I think that atheism shouldn't qualify as a religion but at the same time I think that they should be rewarded equal treatment as well.
Tell me how I'm wrong stinky. I wanna know. Go through why you think the way you do so I can see how you came to your conclusions. Or are you just gonna be lazy?
I'm begging you stinky, please tell me where I'm wrong.
stinky:
I know you have peoples best interests in mind.. but I feel the way you are acting is self defeating.
The very act of congress of trying to pass laws so people don't get out of control with their beliefs is proof enough that "freedom of religion" is not the answer. Right now we're just trying to figure out a solution.
Imo, the best solution is STILL freedom of religion. The only reason there still is confusion is because of people like you, turning up the heat on the oven. You think that by evaporating all the water you will be left with something pure.. but at the same time you have turned whatever it was in the pot into nothing.
You keep calling me confused stinky. I wanna know why.
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