Understandable but inappropriate
St. Charles (MO) teacher faces suspension after playing rude song in class
" A classroom lesson with an anti-police theme and repeated foul language is stirring up some controversy in St. Charles, Missouri. The trouble started after a song was played in a class at St. Charles West High School.
Apparently, an AP English teacher played a song that some of the students and parents found questionable and offensive. The song in question is called "F*** the Police" by the group NWA. The song stirred up controversy when it was released back in 1988.
News 4 is told that the song was being played in the class to try to teach the advanced 12th graders how views on offensive speech can change over time. It was supposed to be a lesson on cultural norms.
Superintendent Randal Charles says that some undisclosed disciplinary action has been taken against the teacher. Students tell News 4 that the teacher is facing a one week suspension. The teacher's name has not been released, but News 4 has learned that she has been teaching at St. Charles West for three years.
Source
I am no fan of the police myself. See here. And I think that use of foul language is a personal decision. But for a teacher to teach in class language that is widely disapproved of seems irresponsible and deserving of some disciplinary measures.
20 comments:
Sad, another fun teacher faces discipline. I don't think is inappropriate, it would be more inappropriate to show a video of Obama speaking than to play the NWA song. What is English anyway? Is it just Shakespeare and Mark Twain? If teaching popular culture can get the kids to read more, do it. These are 12th grade students at an AP class, not only they have the intelligence do deal with this material, I'm sure they've heard the "F" word all their lives.
Parents are being upset over nothing. I would be more upset if the teacher was trying to indoctrinate the kids for Obama.
"I'd be willing to bet the "teacher" is black."
Of course you would.
so foul language is not protected speech?
how is foul language defined in the U.S. Constitution?
are these common foul words, or are they so extraordinarily harsh that these older students would never have heard them before?
this is an AP class...Advance Placement, students are broaching advance theory and material. not the basic lukewarm material usually presented as education in public schools
No, foul speech is not protected speech in a classroom.
Don't believe me? Have your son or daughter use the "n-word" in class and see what happens.
(Of course, the term is used in the song, but it seems that the use is approved when the subject is to attack police.)
AP English certainly has changed since I took it in the 70s. The teacher must have mistaken it for an Ebonics class.
Did J Birch even read the story? The purpose of playing the song was, "to try to teach the advanced 12th graders how views on offensive speech can change over time. It was supposed to be a lesson on cultural norms."
The teacher wasn't trying to teach the kids to disrespect anyone. It was a lesson on language. It's no surprise how bad our public education system is, considering how clever teachers suspended rather than rewarded.
David,
Are you saying that a teacher you laud as being "clever" cannot find a song that does not advocates attacking and killing police officers to illustrate her point on how language norms change?
Surely you aren't saying that the only time the f bomb is used in this world is during this song.
The teacher may have had good intentions but the execution was flawed.
You simply cannot have a teacher using any instructional material that advocates violence against the police.
The article doesn't specify the complaints of the parents and kids. Would your mind change on this matter if the complaints were not just the f bomb, but the n word being used?
Is that how you see it? Pass the Kool-Aid.
I've just watched the movie "Ghosts of Mississippi" today, about the killing of Medgar Evers, in that movie the word "nigger" is used several times. Are y'all saying we can't show that movie in high school because it has obscene words?
Showing an NWA music video is not indoctrination:
"News 4 is told that the song was being played in the class to try to teach the advanced 12th graders how views on offensive speech can change over time. It was supposed to be a lesson on cultural norms"
Rather than condemn the teacher, we should realize that this song is 21 years old, rap music has gotten a lot worse today.
Other than that, being a teacher is hard, it's not easy to keep a class entertained, using controversial materials can inspire students to think and progress.
"Don't believe me? Have your son or daughter use the "n-word" in class and see what happens. "
---There is a different between students insulting each other or their teacher in class and students watching a video with foul language.
Showing an NWA music video is not indoctrination:
It is a video that advocates harming police. Is harming police something that you want taught in a school?
Other than that, being a teacher is hard, it's not easy to keep a class entertained, using controversial materials can inspire students to think and progress.
Ah yes, the thought that kids are in school to be entertained.
That kind of thinking is what has gotten us into the educational mess.
---There is a different between students insulting each other or their teacher in class and students watching a video with foul language.
I would agree with you that the context of the word is often important, but that is not what is taught in schools or demanded by society.
To many, the word is despicable. End of story.
The teacher had a good idea that was executed poorly. That is all there is to it. I wouldn't have suspended her, but at least had a senior teacher and mentor talk to her about the perceptions such a lesson can give.
"It is a video that advocates harming police. Is harming police something that you want taught in a school?"
---Part of being fair and balanced is that you present a point of view and then have a class discussion. Besides, do you think the kids are so stupid that the moment they see rapper singing something they're going to want to imitate what they saw? I played Grand Theft Auto yet I've never killed a cop.
"Ah yes, the thought that kids are in school to be entertained. That kind of thinking is what has gotten us into the educational mess."
---Everything is about entertainment, a boring church will not have too many people filling the pews, a boring politician has a harder time getting elected, and a boring teacher will struggle with anyone other than the nerds. Popular teachers are the ones that teach entertaining classes, that's a fact.
"I would agree with you that the context of the word is often important, but that is not what is taught in schools or demanded by society.
To many, the word is despicable. End of story."
---Fine, the f word is despicable, so is the n-word, but if you want the kids to read Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, they will have to read the n-word.
"The teacher had a good idea that was executed poorly. That is all there is to it. I wouldn't have suspended her, but at least had a senior teacher and mentor talk to her about the perceptions such a lesson can give."
---Well, maybe she could have gotten permission from the parents first, I'll give you that. Still, in the end it's the parents and the students who lose, their behavior is going to create a chilling effect among teachers who will simply remove all controversy from their lessons and deliver boring classes. I believe that if you want a student to get excited about something boring you have to show them something fun first.
Why do you think medical students get to work with cadavers on their first year of medical school? Letting them experiment with a corpse is a lot more fun than reading a book. If showing an NWA video delivers a more involved class that will move into greater things, then I say show it.
---Part of being fair and balanced is that you present a point of view and then have a class discussion.
Which part of "fair and balanced" deals with killing cops?
Besides, do you think the kids are so stupid that the moment they see rapper singing something they're going to want to imitate what they saw?
So words and images have no meaning?
It really doesn't matter. School has the value, according to the Supreme Court, of preparing young people for being productive members of society. No one in their right mind can say that advocating killing and injuring cops is a productive to society.
---Everything is about entertainment,..... Popular teachers are the ones that teach entertaining classes, that's a fact.
No, its not. The best teachers are the ones that are knowledgeable and communicate that knowledge well. I have had a lot of great teachers and not a one "entertained" me.
---Fine, the f word is despicable, so is the n-word, but if you want the kids to read Huckleberry Finn or Tom Sawyer, they will have to read the n-word.
Which is why many schools no longer teach those books.
Still, in the end it's the parents and the students who lose, their behavior is going to create a chilling effect among teachers who will simply remove all controversy from their lessons and deliver boring classes.
Controversy is the only way a class can be exciting? Controversy is the only way a teacher can make a point? Teach a lesson?
Why do you think medical students get to work with cadavers on their first year of medical school? Letting them experiment with a corpse is a lot more fun than reading a book.
No, it is because it is a step forward in their quest to be a doctor. It is not fun, it is a new challenge.
If showing an NWA video delivers a more involved class that will move into greater things, then I say show it.
Of course, there is no way of knowing if the class would be more involved or not, is there?
You don't think that this teacher could have found a way to demonstrate what she wanted without showing a video that advocated killing cops and using terms that she knew would be offensive to many in the class?
The video should have never been shown. There is no rational thought process that allows for it. None.
"Which part of "fair and balanced" deals with killing cops? "
---In the ghetto it isn't cops that are glamorized as heroes but drug dealers and gangsters. Even if racist and abusive cops are few, people tend to focus on the negative rather than the positive, so the result is mass hysteria and videos like F the police. That's something you can teach in class, you show the video and explain why people feel like that.
"So words and images have no meaning?"
---They have meanings but they are not absolute. Watching an NWA's video isn't going to turn you into a cop killer or cop hater.
"It really doesn't matter. School has the value, according to the Supreme Court, of preparing young people for being productive members of society. No one in their right mind can say that advocating killing and injuring cops is a productive to society."
---Schools are supposed to teach you to think, to make judgments, to distinguish right from wrong. The kids don't need a Walt Disney environment filled with positive things. They need NWA videos, graphic videos of drunk driving accidents, pictures of sexual diseases, among others.
"No, its not. The best teachers are the ones that are knowledgeable and communicate that knowledge well. I have had a lot of great teachers and not a one "entertained" me. "
--- Watch the film "Stand and Deliver" and you'll see how a teacher incorporates entertainment in the extremely boring subject of math and calculus.
"Which is why many schools no longer teach those books. "
---Yes, and those many schools are stupid. The works of Mark Twain are brilliant, the kids are being deprived of great knowledge.
"Controversy is the only way a class can be exciting? Controversy is the only way a teacher can make a point? Teach a lesson? "
---No, it's not the only way, but it's part of the mix.
"No, it is because it is a step forward in their quest to be a doctor. It is not fun, it is a new challenge. "
---But it is fun and challenging, it's the difference between reading about being a carpenter and actually building something.
"Of course, there is no way of knowing if the class would be more involved or not, is there?"
----There's no way of knowing anything unless you're a fortune teller. But we can try, right?
"You don't think that this teacher could have found a way to demonstrate what she wanted without showing a video that advocated killing cops and using terms that she knew would be offensive to many in the class? "
---Teachers of sex ed often show gruesome picture of syphilis, gonorrhea and chlamydia because those pictures are more powerful than giving the kids lectures about abstinence. If you have to treat the disease you have to show the sickness, if you want people to respect cops you have to show NWA videos so the kids will know the kind of crap cops have to deal with.
"The video should have never been shown. There is no rational thought process that allows for it. None."
--- I'm sorry, but if I could go back to high school and I had to choose between the class that showed an NWA video and the class that showed an educational film from 1952, I'm taking NWA. I hate political correctness, not showing a video because it's controversial is being PC. Playing it safe and boring rather than dangerous and exciting is being PC. Life is boring enough, we don't need additional censorship.
---In the ghetto it isn't cops that are glamorized as heroes but drug dealers and gangsters.
Even if this were true (and it isn't) that doesn't explain how advocating the killing of cops is either fair or balanced.
---They have meanings but they are not absolute. Watching an NWA's video isn't going to turn you into a cop killer or cop hater.
How do you know this? Because you play GTA? How do you know that in this small town of 66,000 people some kid won't adopt the notion that all cops are evil because of this song?
---Schools are supposed to teach you to think, to make judgments, to distinguish right from wrong.
You just lost. The teacher wasn't presenting this as a moral lesson on what is right or wrong. She was presenting it as an exercise as how views on speech and words have changed. In other words, there was no "fair and balanced" discussion of attacking cops.
--- Watch the film "Stand and Deliver" and you'll see how a teacher incorporates entertainment in the extremely boring subject of math and calculus.
What is it with you and movies? Do you really thing that fictional movies are fact? And just because you didn't find math and calculus exciting, doesn't mean that others don't.
---Yes, and those many schools are stupid. The works of Mark Twain are brilliant, the kids are being deprived of great knowledge.
I agree. And once again, you lose on this point. The teacher could have USED the works of Twain to illustrate her point concerning the words used. Instead, she chose a video advocating violence against police.
---Teachers of sex ed often show gruesome picture of syphilis, gonorrhea and chlamydia because those pictures are more powerful than giving the kids lectures about abstinence.
So a factual, frank discussion is the same as a made up video advocating violence.
That's nuts and you know it.
If you have to treat the disease you have to show the sickness, if you want people to respect cops you have to show NWA videos so the kids will know the kind of crap cops have to deal with.
You really have a problem with distinguishing between fact and fiction, don't you? Your continued reliance on the idea that the teacher was using this to discuss cops is false. Once again, you lie about something to try and make a point.
Have you EVER learned ANYTHING about truth?
--- I'm sorry, but if I could go back to high school and I had to choose between the class that showed an NWA video and the class that showed an educational film from 1952, I'm taking NWA.
Not me. The NWA video doesn't do a thing to teach any skill at all. Nothing. It is a waste of time. It is nothing more than paid propaganda.
I hate political correctness, not showing a video because it's controversial is being PC.
No, it is being morally responsible. Obviously you think that the parents and the kids complaining about this are wrong. On what do you base that upon?
You have spoken in the past about schools indoctrinating kids and yet when it pops up, you are for it.
"Even if this were true (and it isn't) that doesn't explain how advocating the killing of cops is either fair or balanced."
---Fair and balanced means presented the two sides of every issue. If you're teaching culture, you have to show the two sides, otherwise you're just biased.
"How do you know this? Because you play GTA? How do you know that in this small town of 66,000 people some kid won't adopt the notion that all cops are evil because of this song?"
---So because one kid is unstable we're supposed to punish all kids? That's like saying you have to ban "The Turner Diaries" just because Timonthy McVeigh and other radicals have been inspired by that book. And yes, I have played GTA, Hitman, and other games that glamorize criminals yet I've yet to commit a crime myself.
"You just lost. The teacher wasn't presenting this as a moral lesson on what is right or wrong. She was presenting it as an exercise as how views on speech and words have changed. In other words, there was no "fair and balanced" discussion of attacking cops."
---Even if that's the case, the video does show how speech and words have changed. Perhaps she could have used "Gone with the wind" as an example, since in that book blacks are called "darkies," but then some liberal would complain that such book is offensive and should never be read.
"What is it with you and movies? Do you really thing that fictional movies are fact? And just because you didn't find math and calculus exciting, doesn't mean that others don't."
---Stand and Deliver is based on a TRUE STORY, or do you only value information that appears in books?
"I agree. And once again, you lose on this point. The teacher could have USED the works of Twain to illustrate her point concerning the words used. Instead, she chose a video advocating violence against police."
---Maybe the kids are more interested in NWA than Twain, but I guess you don't seem to care what interest the kids, right?
"So a factual, frank discussion is the same as a made up video advocating violence.
That's nuts and you know it."
---Is music not part of our culture? Is it not part of our language?
"Have you EVER learned ANYTHING about truth?"
---I've learned truth is anything people want it to be. That's why creationists and evolutionists are always fighting, there are very few "truths" everyone agrees upon.
"Not me. The NWA video doesn't do a thing to teach any skill at all. Nothing. It is a waste of time. It is nothing more than paid propaganda."
---It certainly teaches the power of language and the effective use of music and video.
"No, it is being morally responsible. Obviously you think that the parents and the kids complaining about this are wrong. On what do you base that upon?"
---No, I don't mind people complaining, but I think the teacher getting disciplined is wrong. She just showed a video, she didn't tell the kids that Islam is the answer, that Obama is a good man, or that smoking weed is cool. She just used a controversial video, no big deal.
"You have spoken in the past about schools indoctrinating kids and yet when it pops up, you are for it."
---Showing a stupid music video is not indoctrination. Indoctrination is showing Al Gore's movie about Global Warming without presenting facts about where that movie is wrong.
I know what indoctrination feels like because in my school they brought a pro-life speaker who never allowed an opposing point of view.
Indoctrination is also forcing the kids to memorize the lyrics of John Lennon's "imagine" song.
The dictionary definition of "indoctrinate" is:
to instruct in a doctrine, principle, ideology, etc., esp. to imbue with a specific partisan or biased belief or point of view
Synonyms:
1. brainwash, propagandize.
The teacher didn't show that video in the context that cops are bad and deserve to die, her context was about how language has changed.
One NWA video is not indoctrination!
---Fair and balanced means presented the two sides of every issue.
"Fair and balanced" includes killing cops?
Did she show a video praising cops?
---So because one kid is unstable we're supposed to punish all kids?
How is it "punishment" to not show a video that is racist, prejudicial, offensive, and advocating violence?
---Even if that's the case, the video does show how speech and words have changed.
So there were other, acceptable ways of showing the same thing. I agree. Her judgment in the use of this video was horrible.
---Is music not part of our culture? Is it not part of our language?
There you go, not answering the questions put forth because they show the fallacy of your thoughts.
---It certainly teaches the power of language and the effective use of music and video.
So the words and images in the video DOES have an effect? A little while ago you said it didn't.
Flip flop.
---I've learned truth is anything people want it to be. That's why creationists and evolutionists are always fighting, there are very few "truths" everyone agrees upon.
So in your mind that justifies you being a liar.
---No, I don't mind people complaining, but I think the teacher getting disciplined is wrong.
The teacher demonstrated very poor judgment in this case. Her intentions were good, but the method she chose were not the choice of a rational, well thought out professional lesson.
She just showed a video, she didn't tell the kids that Islam is the answer, that Obama is a good man, or that smoking weed is cool. She just used a controversial video, no big deal.
No, she did something worse. She showed a video that advocated killing of other human beings. She showed a video that she had to know was going to be offensive to any blacks, any kids with policemen as parents or friends, in her class, gays and just plain decent people. She also probably broke the law in doing so.
---Showing a stupid music video is not indoctrination.
Gore advocates one point of view. This video advocates killing cops.
There was no counter made to the video. That is what you are missing.
The teacher didn't show that video in the context that cops are bad and deserve to die, her context was about how language has changed.
You still don't get it do you?
If her point was to show how language has changed, then there is no need to show a video about killing cops.
It is the choice of material that rightfully got the woman in trouble.
"How is it "punishment" to not show a video that is racist, prejudicial, offensive, and advocating violence?"
---What about the movie Braveheart or The Patriot? Are we not allowed to show those films because they have violence? Besides, how is that video racist? NWA has the same message for black and white cops, he doesn't discriminate.
"So the words and images in the video DOES have an effect? A little while ago you said it didn't.
Flip flop."
---Just because a song becomes popular doesn't mean everyone follows the message. The famous song "I kissed a girl" didn't turn every woman into a lesbian, did it?
"So in your mind that justifies you being a liar."
---I'm not a liar, I just have different moral standards from you.
"She showed a video that she had to know was going to be offensive to any blacks, any kids with policemen as parents or friends, in her class, gays and just plain decent people."
---Life is offensive, there will always be something that will offend someone else. The kids and the teacher are free to discuss what is offensive about what they saw.
"She also probably broke the law in doing so."
---How did she broke the law? The video isn't rated R and even if it was, you can watch R rated movies with an adult.
"Gore advocates one point of view. This video advocates killing cops."
---Gore advocates a point of view that could destroy our economic system, leave millions unemployed, and turn our nation into a socialist hell. And unlike that video, Gore is much more influential.
"There was no counter made to the video. That is what you are missing."
---There was no need for a counter, the lesson was about language mores, not about cops.
"If her point was to show how language has changed, then there is no need to show a video about killing cops."
---Fine, she could have used something else, but she didn't think it would be such a big deal.The woman got in trouble because people today are too damn sensitive.
The irony is that our culture loves violence, from the Saw series to The Terminator, Americans love to see explosions, death and destruction. Check this week's box office, "The Final Destination" is the highest grossing film right now. It's obvious that many of us see beauty in brutality. In that context, "F the Police" is tame compared to most of the crap out there.
---Are we not allowed to show those films because they have violence?
Any teacher that shows Braveheart or the Patriot should be fired because neither of them are historically accurate. Even so, neither ADVOCATES violence against another person.
Besides, how is that video racist?
You forgot the repeated use of the n-word in the video.
---Just because a song becomes popular doesn't mean everyone follows the message.
Another change in the standard from you. It doesn't have to be "popular."
---I'm not a liar, I just have different moral standards from you.
Those "standards" apparently include lying about things. You have been caught too many times not to wear the label. It is what you are.
---Life is offensive, there will always be something that will offend someone else.
It is not the teacher's job to blatantly offend people. It can be said that she created a hostile atmosphere in her class which is certainly against the law.
---...and even if it was, you can watch R rated movies with an adult.
The "adult" has to be your parent or guardian. (In other words, you are ignorant of this as well.) Secondly, the video and song carried a voluntary rating which may have precluded the thing from being played in the classroom without the permission of parents.
---Gore advocates a point of view that could destroy our economic system, leave millions unemployed, and turn our nation into a socialist hell. And unlike that video, Gore is much more influential.
And this video advocates killing cops. It is also racist, homophobic, prejudicial and offensive.
In your mind the difference between this video and the Al Gore video is the point of view presented. That's all.
---There was no need for a counter, the lesson was about language mores, not about cops.
Then once again, there was no need to use a video that advocates killing cops, that is racist, that is prejudicial, that is homophobic and offensive.
---The woman got in trouble because people today are too damn sensitive.
The woman got into trouble because she chose a video that advocated killing people! That is not being "sensitive." She showed a film that was racist in a classroom that by law is supposed to be neutral. She showed a video that was homophobic in a classroom that is supposed to be neutral.
THAT is why she got into trouble. She made a horrific choice and no amount of quibbling on your part can change that fact.
In that context, "F the Police" is tame compared to most of the crap out there.
There ya go, my uber-liberal friend. Use the lowest common denominator to make crap seem like Shakespeare.
Moral relativism is the one of the hallmarks of the left.
"You forgot the repeated use of the n-word in the video."
---Come on, blacks love the n-word, they use it all the time in videos and even among themselves. The only time they hate the n-word is when a white man uses it.
"It is not the teacher's job to blatantly offend people. It can be said that she created a hostile atmosphere in her class which is certainly against the law."
----A hostile atmosphere? You mean like those liberal teachers that humiliate republican students in class? Or the ones that compare the victims of 9/11 to "little eichmans?" I don't think one NWA video creates a hostile atmosphere.
"The woman got into trouble because she chose a video that advocated killing people! That is not being "sensitive." She showed a film that was racist in a classroom that by law is supposed to be neutral. She showed a video that was homophobic in a classroom that is supposed to be neutral."
---How is this video homophobic? Did you watch it?
"There ya go, my uber-liberal friend. Use the lowest common denominator to make crap seem like Shakespeare."
---I'm glad you brought up Shakespeare. I read "The Merchant of Venice," some could argue is one of the most anti-semitic plays ever written yet it has historical value and in the proper context you can teach it and even perform it.
I'm not a liberal, I'm simply more tolerant of "offensive" things because I don't believe that we should only be exposed to things that are nice and pretty.
"Moral relativism is the one of the hallmarks of the left."
---Morality is relative since every group defines it their way. For example, I think tattoos are abhorrent, the old testament certainly forbids them, yet they're all the rage now and you see all kinds of people defiling their skin with tattoos and body piercing. Yet am I going to get upset if a teacher uses a documentary on tatoos during art class? No. I distinguish between active indoctrination and sharing knowledge.
You know, there was a day when that teacher would be fired and blackballed. Oh, how I long for that day.
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