Danish tourism bosses lose the plot
We read:
"Danish tourism bosses have been forced to apologise over a campaign to lure men to the country with the promise that its women are easy. Marketing bosses posted a video on YouTube in which a beautiful blonde said she was looking for her child's father.
The fake yummy mummy claimed her little boy August was the result of boozy one-night stand with a stranger in the capital Copenhagen after she introduced him to the Danish custom of "cosiness". She then pleads with the mystery man whose name she can't remember to get in touch, with photos of the mum and her son also put up on the site.
The clip, which appeared to be shot on a video camera in the woman's living room, attracted more than a million hits. But it sparked nationwide fury after it emerged that it was all a set-up and was designed to attract more male tourists to Denmark.
The revelation the clip was a hoax caused outrage across the country, with one newspaper labelling the stunt "grotesque".
Visit Denmark tried to defend its actions, saying it was a "good and sweet story about a mature, responsible woman who lives in a free society and shoulders the responsibility of her actions". But the clip of actor Ditte Arnth Jorgensen was pulled.
"We deeply apologise that the film has offended a lot of people, that certainly wasn't the idea," CEO Dorte Kiilerich said.
Source
Misleading advertising? I suspect so.
30 comments:
Danish blonds? Eeeeeeewwwwwww!!
Sounds like smart advertising to me. How do you get an American male in his 20s or 30s to come to Denmark? Promise him that the women are easier over there.
Yeah, promise him that there is a paternity suit waiting for him at while at the same time, insulting every woman in the country.
This was a horrible idea and people should have been sacked for it.
"Yeah, promise him that there is a paternity suit waiting for him at while at the same time, insulting every woman in the country."
---Europeans are very liberal about sex, the only women who should feel insulted are the sluts that get pregnant in the first place, and frankly, I don't feel sorry for them.
ACORN was going to help with her taxes too!
---Europeans are very liberal about sex, the only women who should feel insulted are the sluts that get pregnant in the first place, and frankly, I don't feel sorry for them.
Read the story and other reports on this and you'll find that your impression of who was insulted is totally wrong.
It is just another case of thoughtless advertising.
"Read the story and other reports on this and you'll find that your impression of who was insulted is totally wrong. It is just another case of thoughtless advertising. "
---I must be missing something because the only people insulted are the Danes. Sure, no country wants to admit that their girls are easy, but so what? Advertising is the art of creating a message that sells. If Denmark says their women are sexy that means nothing, anyone can make that claim, but if you claim that their women are easy then you're delivering an interesting message that might deliver some sales.
But remember this, for advertising to be effective it must be seen which means "breaking through the clutter." Because we are bombarded with so many ad messages it's hard for advertisers to get us to pay attention since we are naturally inclined to tune out. So what's the solution? Deliver a message that doesn't sound like advertising at all, as was the case of this youtube video that not only was extremely popular but even The O'reilly Factor covered the story.
So what if the Danish bosses had to apologize? The campaign already did it's job, people are now talking about Denmark and maybe in the future they will book travel there.
---I must be missing something because the only people insulted are the Danes.
You are missing something.
Advertising is the art of creating a message that sells.
This message didn't sell.
Deliver a message that doesn't sound like advertising at all, as was the case of this youtube video that not only was extremely popular but even The O'reilly Factor covered the story.
Your boy Bill covered the story as part of his "stupid thing of the week." Nothing like an advertising campaign that is said to be stupid.
So what if the Danish bosses had to apologize? The campaign already did it's job, people are now talking about Denmark and maybe in the future they will book travel there.
Yeah. Sure.
Just another case where advertising and the people who work within it have no sense of class or dignity.
"This message didn't sell."
---Of course not, you're a prude, I doubt anything with sex sells to you. Not that it matters since you're not part of their target audience.
"Your boy Bill covered the story as part of his "stupid thing of the week." Nothing like an advertising campaign that is said to be stupid."
---There's no such thing as bad publicity. Besides, we're not followers of Bill O'reilly, we are allowed to disagree with him.
"Just another case where advertising and the people who work within it have no sense of class or dignity."
---Yes, we all know your St. Anonymous of Dignity, the martyr of morality and dignity. Class and dignity doesn't pay the mortgage.
---Of course not,
Then we agree the campaign was a failure. Or is it your assertion that a campaign that was pulled after a few days, where officials are resigning, and people have been fired is "successful?"
---There's no such thing as bad publicity.
Tell that to Mark Sanford.
Besides, we're not followers of Bill O'reilly, we are allowed to disagree with him.
So let me get this straight. You use O'Reilly as some sort of vindication for how great the as is and then when it is pointed out that he was saying how ridiculous and stupid the ad was, you suddenly abandon your boy.
Class and dignity doesn't pay the mortgage.
Of course it does. The only time when it doesn't is when you have no real marketable skills, like a prostitute. That is all advertising agencies are anyway. They don't produce a real product.
"Then we agree the campaign was a failure."
---No I do not, if the objective of the campaign was to have develop a popular viral video that would get people talking about Dennmark then the objective was achieved. Or do you think all advertising has to be: "Hi, this is Billy Mays for CrapU."
"Or is it your assertion that a campaign that was pulled after a few days, where officials are resigning, and people have been fired is "successful?""
---Calvin Klein is famous for doing billboards that piss off people, get publicity, and then have to be taken down. The article said nothing about officials resigning or people getting fired.
"Tell that to Mark Sanford."
---I don't know who that is.
"So let me get this straight. You use O'Reilly as some sort of vindication for how great the as is and then when it is pointed out that he was saying how ridiculous and stupid the ad was, you suddenly abandon your boy."
---Getting Bill O'Reilly to talk about you is usually a good thing because he generates publicity and word of mouth which can deliver sales.
"Of course it does. The only time when it doesn't is when you have no real marketable skills, like a prostitute. That is all advertising agencies are anyway. They don't produce a real product."
---Advertising agencies produce sales and create brand awareness. Those cool Apple commercials where not created by Apple corporation, neither are the stupid yet popular clysdale commercials from Budweiser. It's not enough to have a great product or a great price, people have to know about it. When you sell your car, do you not put an ad in the newspaper? That's advertising. So is GM telling you that if you act now you'll get 0% financing and $5,000 cash back.
Things don't just sell themselves and customers don't just show up because you have a new store in town.
---No I do not,
I'm sorry, but that is what you said.
if the objective of the campaign was to have develop a popular viral video that would get people talking about Dennmark then the objective was achieved.
Then the campaign was a failure as it is not having people want to come to Denmark, it is people talking about stupid the Danish company that made the ad and the people that approved it are. That is not a positive image that one wants to project. People are talking about the stupidity of the ad - not its intended purpose.
---I don't know who that is.
You would think by now you would know how to find out.
---Getting Bill O'Reilly to talk about you is usually a good thing because he generates publicity and word of mouth which can deliver sales.
Except that is not what happened here. If you want to say that OReilly's "endorsement" is a good thing, fine. The opposite is that his panning and noting the ad was stupid means the ad failed. Your boy said it did.
---Advertising agencies produce sales and create brand awareness.
Neither is a tangible object. As I said, ad agencies don't produce anything.
Things don't just sell themselves and customers don't just show up because you have a new store in town.
You'd be surprised how often just that thing happens. It is called "word of mouth."
"Then the campaign was a failure as it is not having people want to come to Denmark, it is people talking about stupid the Danish company that made the ad and the people that approved it are. That is not a positive image that one wants to project. People are talking about the stupidity of the ad - not its intended purpose."
---If that was true, how do you explain this:
"In the autumn of 2004, Paris Hilton released an autobiographical book, Confessions of an Heiress: A Tongue-in-Chic Peek Behind the Pose, co-written by Merle Ginsberg, which includes full color photographs of her and her advice on life as an heiress. Hilton reportedly received a $100,000 advance payment for this book. Some in the media panned the writing as amateurish, and the book was parodied by Robert Mundell on The Late Show with David Letterman. The book became a New York Times bestseller. Hilton followed it up with a designer diary, also with Ginsberg, called Your Heiress Diary: Confess It All to Me."
See what I mean? All the bad publicity in the world hasn't hurt Paris Hilton.
Read her bio if you don't believe me.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Hilton
And before you put her down, realize that most heirs and heiresses rarely profit from their celebrity.
"You would think by now you would know how to find out."
---One example of bad publicity not benefiting someone doesn't mean anything.
"Except that is not what happened here. If you want to say that OReilly's "endorsement" is a good thing, fine. The opposite is that his panning and noting the ad was stupid means the ad failed. Your boy said it did."
---Bill Maher and John Stewart are always being criticized by Bill O'reilly for the evil things they do, yet those two bastards are still on the air, still making big bucks, still getting ratings. When the show "Married with Children" received bad publicity from the PTC they became an instant hit, suddenly millions of people wanted to see what the fuss is about.
Sex tourism is real, people travel to Cuba, Amsterdam, Thailand and many other places to fulfill their sexual needs. Why should Denmark not get in the game as well?
"Neither is a tangible object. As I said, ad agencies don't produce anything."
---Neither do lawyers yet if you're ever arrested for a crime you didn't commit, you will pray a lawyer will help you get an acquittal. Not everything that's produced happens to be tangible, a good psychologist may give you peace of mind, you can't touch that but you can feel it. Great and even bad advertising can sell products, are you telling me that's not valuable?
"You'd be surprised how often just that thing happens. It is called "word of mouth."
---Sure, and sometimes you need advertising to create that word of mouth. For example, there used to be a time that filter cigarettes where considered feminine, nobody was buying Marlboros, my father's RA told him "Marlboro's are for sissies." So what did Leo Burnett do? They invented the Marlboro Man, at first it was going to be a dude with tattoos but later on decided on the cowboy and the rest is history.
Word of mouth didn't sell Marlboro's or Camels or Virginia Slims. It was advertising that sold them, it was creating a brand image that people can relate with.
Subway uses Jared in TV commercials to brand themselves as a healthy fast-food place. Thanks to that a lot of people on a diet eat at Subway and try the "freshfit" menu.
Word of mouth alone is useless, you need advertising, publicity and PR to generate results.
---If that was true, how do you explain this:
Paris Hilton was in Denmark?
The campaign in Denmark was an abject failure.
---One example of bad publicity not benefiting someone doesn't mean anything.
It only proves that you are wrong.
---Neither do lawyers yet if you're ever arrested for a crime you didn't commit, you will pray a lawyer will help you get an acquittal.
So you agree - ad agencies don't produce anything tangible. Thanks for agreeing.
Word of mouth alone is useless, you need advertising, publicity and PR to generate results.
That is the line that people in the PR world like to try and sell. There is some truth to it, but generally speaking, it is false. Take a look at the millions of dollars spent on the Super Bowl ads. None of them have produced a jump in sales, which is the bottom line.
Oh yeah..... two other points of note:
1) In your attempt to prop up Paris Hilton, you included a really nice little piece describing her writings as "amateurish." I guess that kind of dispels your belief that writers on soap operas are literary giants as it appears anyone can write a book that sells.
2) You example of Jared is flawed. Subway's ad agency didn't do anything other than take note of several articles that had already detailed his weight loss.
A poorly trained monkey could have read those articles and said, "gee, maybe we should put this out there?" And so the monkeys did just that. They didn't create anything. They didn't come up with anything. They didn't produce anything.
Also, I missed this:
Sex tourism is real, people travel to Cuba, Amsterdam, Thailand and many other places to fulfill their sexual needs. Why should Denmark not get in the game as well?
If that is what Denmark wanted to sell, that would be fine. It wasn't. That wasn't the stated purpose of the campaign at all. That means that not only was the actual campaign a failure, it cast Denmark in a negative light.
Lastly, your comment about O'Reilly, Stewart and Maher is so far off the beaten path that it makes no sense at all. First you were trying to say that OReilly's opinion carries some weight. Then when the opinion was negative, you said that it didn't matter. Now you are trying to prove that his opinion - the one that you tried to use to give your point some legitimacy - isn't true.
I can hardly wait to see what new lie or quibble you will come up with to try and weasel out of this.
"So you agree - ad agencies don't produce anything tangible. Thanks for agreeing."
---Let's see, GM produces something tangible, cars, yet they're basically bankrupt and shutting lots of plants. Leo Burnett, Zimmerman Advertising and many other agencies produce something intangible yet they're loaded with cash. Which one would you rather be?
" Take a look at the millions of dollars spent on the Super Bowl ads. None of them have produced a jump in sales, which is the bottom line."
---I wouldn't be too sure of that, Budweiser is the biggest advertiser in the Superbowl, they will buy 10 spots in advance. Their spots are popular, their characters beloved, and yes, Budweiser and Miller Lite enjoy huge sales.
In fact, thanks to advertising, this country doesn't need a draft. Want people to join? Increase the signing bonus, promise to pay their credit card bills, promise free college tuition, do a slick TV commercial that shows a soldier jumping out of a helicopter, send them to a website with a cool design, send them a DVD. Did you know the movie Top Gun was made with the help of the Air Force? Did you know that when our military helps Hollywood they can raise objections about the script?
"1) In your attempt to prop up Paris Hilton...anyone can write a book that sells."
---No, very few people can write a books that sell, even professional writers struggle. Paris Hilton simply benefited from the good and bad publicity which has delivered millions of fans. As for soap opera writers, they deserve as much control of their product as Shakespeare had of his. I don't remember jewish actors telling Shakespeare that they found the character of Shylock offensive, or that they can't play Shylock unless they rewrite The Merchant of Venice to make it less anti-semitic.
"2) You example of Jared is flawed. Subway's ad agency didn't do anything other than take note of several articles that had already detailed his weight loss."
---Ad agencies wrote the commercials, wrote the lines Jared says in them, design the set, took the pictures, created a multi-media marketing campaign which includes web, TV, print, radio and out of home (billboards, etc). Besides, just because a product gets good PR doesn't mean consumer loyalty endures, VIAGRA had excellent PR when it came out, yet they have to advertise to keep their brand fresh and to keep their users from switching to Cyalis and other erection drugs.
"A poorly trained monkey could have read those articles....They didn't create anything. They didn't come up with anything. They didn't produce anything."
---Then why does Victoria's Secret spends millions advertising? Including their famous ads that lead you to those online underwear fashion shows? VS doesn't even product a high quality product, I know women that have told me that those panties aren't very durable, yet because of advertising many women are convinced VS will make them look sexy and thus they buy it.
"...not only was the actual campaign a failure, it cast Denmark in a negative light."
---Denmark wanted to sell sex without being so obvious. Instead of saying "we have hookers here" they decided to say "our women love foreigners and are likely to f-ck them." That may be negative to you, but if I'm a horny American that doesn't get laid often, that's not negative to me.
Sex is a commodity, some men even pay to meet beautiful Russian women that want to marry Americans. Or consider the popularity of those "Girls Gone Wild" commercials which by the way, nobody would know about them if it wasn't for advertising.
Leo Burnett, Zimmerman Advertising and many other agencies produce something intangible
Thank you for admitting that advertising companies produce nothing tangible.
---I wouldn't be too sure of that,
I would. For the last two years "AdWorld" has reported that the Super Bowl ads have not given a bump in sales to any of the advertising companies.
---No, very few people can write a books that sell, even professional writers struggle.
Uh..... a "professional writer" is one who is paid for their work. Using Hilton as an example of a professional writer only shows that the bar is not that high.
---Ad agencies wrote the commercials,
I notice that you missed the important part - they didn't create or find Jared. Two magazine writers did.
---Then why does Victoria's Secret spends millions advertising?
I don't know. Ask them. They were a successful company long before they advertised though.
---Denmark wanted to sell sex without being so obvious.
I am not responding to this lie. The facts are against your assertion here, so as usual, you make something up.
By the way.....
---Let's see, GM produces something tangible, cars, yet they're basically bankrupt and shutting lots of plants. Leo Burnett, Zimmerman Advertising and many other agencies produce something intangible yet they're loaded with cash. Which one would you rather be?
I presume that you are trying to say that advertising is effective. To prove this point, you give a company that was one of the top 5 advertisers in the world that failed.
I guess that proves the point that with advertising, the company that benefits from actual advertising is the advertising company itself - not the client.
"I would. For the last two years "AdWorld" has reported that the Super Bowl ads have not given a bump in sales to any of the advertising companies."
---Fine, maybe companies advertise there as an ego trip, maybe they're hoping on future sales. Either way, the price of a Superbowl spot keeps increasing every year yet many companies do advertise there. Can you explain that?
"Uh..... a "professional writer" is one who is paid for their work. Using Hilton as an example of a professional writer only shows that the bar is not that high."
---No, Hilton isn't a professional writer, neither is Obama nor Bill Clinton (both have written books). A professional writer is someone who writes for a living. Either way, a lot of celebrities use ghostwriters to help them polish their ideas, maybe Paris Hilton did the same, I don't know. Either way, my point with Paris wasn't to say that her writers are great but that the publicity she's gotten has helped her make profits other writers would kill for.
"I notice that you missed the important part - they didn't create or find Jared. Two magazine writers did."
---It doesn't matter, magazine writing is not the same as copywriting or commercial writing. Those funny Geico commercials with celebrities where created by writers, the celebrities didn't come up with that stuff.
"I presume that you are trying to say that advertising is effective. To prove this point, you give a company that was one of the top 5 advertisers in the world that failed."
---One of the rules of advertising is that you can only sell a bad product once. Toyota, Honda and Nissan are much better companies than the former big 3.
"I guess that proves the point that with advertising, the company that benefits from actual advertising is the advertising company itself - not the client."
---That's very simplistic, sure, when the economy turns bad the first thing clients cut is their advertising budget. And then what happens? They see that the public doesn't know what's going on because they no longer see the commercials. How else is Subway gonna brag about their $5 footlongs? Why should I visit Idaho if I don't see a commercial inviting me to see their website or call 1-800 to order a brochure?
Word of mouth can only take you so far. Besides, word of mouth assume that everyone is social and has lots of friends, I hardly have any friends and when they talk to me they don't tell me to buy X car or to do X thing.
Why is your mailbox full of junkmail? It's because 3% to 6% of the people getting that junkmail are responding. So you say advertising is useless, I disagree. If something is useless it will ultimately fail. And by the way, companies are constantly evaluating results from their advertising, they count how many people visit the stores, call that 1-800 number, redeem coupons, click on their online banners and so on. Even Wal-Mart, the king of low prices and retailer extraordinare advertises. Why? Because word of mouth is not enough.
---Fine, maybe companies advertise there as an ego trip, maybe they're hoping on future sales.
So you now agree that the reason people advertise - to increase sales - doesn't happen with Super Bowl ads.
Thanks.
---No, Hilton isn't a professional writer,
From dictionary.com: professional: following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain.
You yourself said she made money off of the book. That is "gain." She's a professional.
---It doesn't matter, magazine writing is not the same as copywriting or commercial writing.
I agree. Magazing / journalistic writing takes some level of skill. Copywriting or commercial writing does not come close to needing the same skill level.
---One of the rules of advertising is that you can only sell a bad product once.
So the advertising companies that took loads of money don't even believe in the product they are hawking?
Besides, word of mouth assume that everyone is social and has lots of friends,
It doesn't take "a lot of friends." Clearly you don't understand the mathematics of this.
I hardly have any friends and when they talk to me they don't tell me to buy X car or to do X thing.
Sorry, but that you have few friends is not a surprise at all.
Why is your mailbox full of junkmail? It's because 3% to 6% of the people getting that junkmail are responding.
You wish. The actual figures are 1 - 2% of respondents from a direct mailing campaign.
So let's review, shall we?
You have admitted that advertising agencies will lie and take money on a company or product in which they do not believe. You further believe that a return of 3% on an investment is a good deal. What world do you live in where a business expenditure returning 3% is a good deal? What company do you run that would like to get a 3% return on their investment.
Oh wait.... you don't run a company do you? You wouldn't make those decisions.
Sorry. My bad.
For these very reasons, the direct mailing industry is dying. The costs are rising, and the returns are not worth it.
Keep talking if you want. The more you talk the more you dig a hole and show that ad agencies are nothing more than shysters and prostitutes.
But back to the original post. The Denmark campaign was a failure. Period. End of story.
"So you now agree that the reason people advertise - to increase sales - doesn't happen with Super Bowl ads."
---To an extent, however, if you want your message to be seen by 40 million people, then yes, advertising on the Superbowl is a good idea.
"I agree. Magazing / journalistic writing takes some level of skill. Copywriting or commercial writing does not come close to needing the same skill level."
---You're wrong, copywriting is really hard and some copywriters end up burning out really quickly. It's not easy coming up with ideas, develop them into ads, and convince a bunch of people that those ideas are good. You just don't respect the craft because you haven't experienced it.
"So the advertising companies that took loads of money don't even believe in the product they are hawking?"
---Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the client will listen to the ad agency and improve their products, other times they get really offended if you question their products in any way. My job is to write sales messages, not to believe in them.
"It doesn't take "a lot of friends." Clearly you don't understand the mathematics of this."
---I understand my own life experiences and while I admit they are not universal, I also think there's lots of people like me. For example, I didn't find out about the new Friday the 13th film through word of mouth, I saw the movie trailer on TV and decided to buy a ticket. Advertising convinced me, not people.
"Sorry, but that you have few friends is not a surprise at all."
---Yeah well, I'd rather have a few good friends than a lot of bad friends.
"You wish. The actual figures are 1 - 2% of respondents from a direct mailing campaign."
---I got two family members who work in direct marketing (junkmail, DR TV, etc) and yes, 1-2% is when the message is unsuccessful, 3% to 6% is a mark of success. My point is that without the junkmail those companies would not be making sales. It's a lot cheaper to send junkmail than to hire salesman and send them door to door.
"You further believe that a return of 3% on an investment is a good deal. What world do you live in where a business expenditure returning 3% is a good deal?"
---Small sales are better than no sales. When I worked for Lennar we had weekends that we sold 40 houses and 120 houses. You write a line of copy like "Home for the Holidays," you put amazing financing rates, you tell the people that each house comes with the choice of either a big TV, a swimming pool, or a BBQ, or that the first 100 people to show up will get a $50 Best Buy giftcard. You do all that and you're almost guaranteed the sales you need.
"For these very reasons, the direct mailing industry is dying. The costs are rising, and the returns are not worth it."
---Please, even in my industry there are always the drama queens claiming that TV is dying, radio is dying, etc. Quite the opposite, direct response is booming because in this economy clients demand to see immediate results from their advertising.
"The more you talk the more you dig a hole and show that ad agencies are nothing more than shysters and prostitutes."
---That's not so, sometimes agencies will fire clients if they become too difficult to work with. Prostitutes and shysters don't do that.
"But back to the original post. The Denmark campaign was a failure. Period. End of story."
---That remains to be seen. I'm sure interest in Denmark has increased, more people are reading articles about Denmark as well as watching youtube videos, visiting websites, calling the 1-800 number, and some are probably booking flights as we speak.
Everything's advertised one way or another, your hatred of the industry means nothing.
---You're wrong, copywriting is really hard and some copywriters end up burning out really quickly.
Working in a steel factory is hard. Laying concrete in 100 degree heat 100 stories in the air is hard. The only reason that copywriting is "hard" is because people that do it have no tangible skills.
---Small sales are better than no sales.
Not if those sales are costing you money. If you spend $100 to make a sale on which the profit is $50, you've lost.
---That's not so, sometimes agencies will fire clients if they become too difficult to work with. Prostitutes and shysters don't do that.
Actually lawyers and prostitutes do do that. Furthermore, just like ad agencies, they will give exaggerated claims of how great the client is. Just like ad agencies, they will blame the client when things go wrong.
---That remains to be seen.
Don't let the facts get in the way of your delusions.
So has anyone done a study that has shown no increase in Danish tourism? How can anyone say that the stunt was a failure? With over one million hits on the video, someone must be interested in traveling there.
"Working in a steel factory is hard. Laying concrete in 100 degree heat 100 stories in the air is hard. The only reason that copywriting is "hard" is because people that do it have no tangible skills."
---No, creative work is always hard, it's brain work. Those steel factory jobs demand muscles and endless repetition, which means that after a while you can do it perfectly. Creatives don't have that luxury, the market is always changing, the products change, the media where you advertise change. The ads that used to sell don't sell anymore, so you're constantly forced to reinvent your work. IT's obvious you have no respect for creative work, you probably think that what Stephen King does is easy, right?
"Not if those sales are costing you money. If you spend $100 to make a sale on which the profit is $50, you've lost."
---Yeah, and when you don't spend any money you don't make any money. Why do people advertise on the yellow pages? Why advertise on craiglist? Because when someone needs something they will find you there. If I go to Las Vegas the first thing I do is get one of those "free" maps that are filled with advertisement. Why? Because that's how you get tourists to visit your destinations.
"Actually lawyers and prostitutes do do that. Furthermore, just like ad agencies, they will give exaggerated claims of how great the client is. Just like ad agencies, they will blame the client when things go wrong."
--And just like agencies, society can't survive without lawyers or prostitutes.
And yes, agencies should blame the client when the client stifles creativity, ruins the ad with too much boring stuff, and then wonders why people are ignoring the ad? When the client is a pussy, he deserves to get f-cked.
---No, creative work is always hard, it's brain work.
It is not as hard as pouring steel, working 30 stories in the air, etc. When was the last time you ever heard of a creative writer dying on the job?
"Ohmigosh Jim, the keyboard attacked him and it was all over."
IT's obvious you have no respect for creative work,
Actually you couldn't be more wrong. The company that I run and own makes products that require creative talent and artistic ability. So once again, you say something and stick your whole foot in your mouth.
---Yeah, and when you don't spend any money you don't make any money.
Obviously it depends on how you spend your money. It is funny that you give as an example Craigslist - a free, no charge site - and then say that people are making money there.
--And just like agencies, society can't survive without lawyers or prostitutes.
Right. After all, the world as we know it would collapse without the prospect of another Tid-e-Bowl man.
And yes, agencies should blame the client when the client stifles creativity, ruins the ad with too much boring stuff, and then wonders why people are ignoring the ad? When the client is a pussy, he deserves to get f-cked.
There ya go. Nothing like respecting your clients. This is part of the problem with ad agencies. They think that what they do is more important than the actual product or the client. If you can't convince a client of something, that really shows that you can't sell water to a man dying of thirst. There is a hubris that people catch onto very quickly from ad agencies. Despite the fact that more campaigns fail than succeed, ad agencies still think they know it all.
After all, writing "SALE!" takes hard work.
"It is not as hard as pouring steel, working 30 stories in the air, etc. When was the last time you ever heard of a creative writer dying on the job?"
---When was the last time you heard of a steel working having to go to college and develop a portfolio to get a junior job that pays $30,000 a year? When was the last time a steel worker didn't get paid for overtime? Do you always dismiss white collar jobs or is your bias just against advertising?
"Actually you couldn't be more wrong. The company that I run and own makes products that require creative talent and artistic ability. So once again, you say something and stick your whole foot in your mouth."
---Really? And how are those products sold? Word of mouth? I guess you must have lots of friends.
"Obviously it depends on how you spend your money. It is funny that you give as an example Craigslist - a free, no charge site - and then say that people are making money there."
---Not all ads on craiglist are free, the job wanted ads you have to pay, the same for the adult ads. Besides, some of those ads you see on craiglist are developed by ad agencies, specially the ones selling real estate.
"They think that what they do is more important than the actual product or the client."
---Without sales there is nothing.
"If you can't convince a client of something, that really shows that you can't sell water to a man dying of thirst."
---Clients are often in love with their own products to the point they can't realize others may not feel the same way about them. A homebuilder may build fine homes, but it takes advertising to convince people of that, to bring them to the neighborhood and make them see what's for sale.
"After all, writing "SALE!" takes hard work."
---It's a lot more than that, you think coming up with an idea is easy, try coming up with 10 ideas a day, try writing 10 radio commercials about a product you hate, you think you're so smart? Go ahead and come up with a new slogan for American Express, think it's easy? See if you can find a better way to say "don't leave home without it."
Future news flash: One hundred million Chinese men apply for visas to Denmark.
---When was the last time you heard of a steel working having to go to college and develop a portfolio to get a junior job that pays $30,000 a year?
When was the last time you did anything on which the safety of hundreds, thousands or millions of people depend upon?
---Really? And how are those products sold? Word of mouth? I guess you must have lots of friends.
Not through an ad agency, that is for sure. Mostly it is through word of mouth. And just so you know, I have never sold anything from my company to a friend in my life. It is word of mouth from CUSTOMERS that make the business work.
---Not all ads on craiglist are free, the job wanted ads you have to pay, the same for the adult ads.
Sorry, but the example you gave was for a free part of Craigslist. This is just another meaningless quibble from you because you stepped in it again.
A homebuilder may build fine homes, but it takes advertising to convince people of that, to bring them to the neighborhood and make them see what's for sale.
Yeah, a "for sale" sign really is hard to come up with, that's for sure. And ads on MLS are just dynamite and show the versatility and scope of an ad agency. Oh wait. The ads on MLS are not from agencies.
Keep talking because those feet in your mouth must taste yummy to you.
---Without sales there is nothing.
Sales occur without the help (or more likely the hindrance) of ad agencies all the time.
---Clients are often in love with their own products to the point they can't realize others may not feel the same way about them.
Which of course is not the point you were trying to make. However, it seems that you are NOW trying so say that the customer is so in love with a product that you - whose business is to convince people of something - can't convince the client. But I bet you are still willing to take his money, aren't you?
You can't do your job in house with the client and expect people to rush to you because you are "experts."
See if you can find a better way to say "don't leave home without it."
THANK YOU!!!
You just make the point. The AE slogan of "don't leave home without it" was proposed by a vice president from American Express itself. It was NOT thought of by some ad agency.
You keep proving my points all the time.
"When was the last time you did anything on which the safety of hundreds, thousands or millions of people depend upon? "
---Duh, when advertising succeeds and sales climb the jobs of millions are saved. America is a consumer society, the future of this country depends on Americans buying stuff, every time you buy something at Wal-Mart you're saving the jobs of greeters, cashiers, distributers, maintenance workers, truckers, and lots of people connected to that industry. Advertising encourages consumption, and yes, that's a good thing. Those freegans and the weirdoes that try to go a year without buying anything are the enemy. If you don't buy, you don't contribute. If everyone grew their own vegetables and raised their own cattle millions of farmers would be broke, it's because people buy stuff that society benefits collectively.
"Not through an ad agency, that is for sure. Mostly it is through word of mouth. And just so you know, I have never sold anything from my company to a friend in my life. It is word of mouth from CUSTOMERS that make the business work. "
---Since you haven't told me what's the nature of your business I can't comment. But if you think advertising is useless, I dare you to run a car dealership without it.
"Yeah, a "for sale" sign really is hard to come up with, that's for sure. And ads on MLS are just dynamite and show the versatility and scope of an ad agency. Oh wait. The ads on MLS are not from agencies. "
---A For Sale sign is not enough if only a few people see it. If you're trying to sell a house in Dallas maybe there's a buyer in Plano, or Fort Worth that wants to move to Dallas so they're looking at the newspaper and seeing what's for sale. And they don't just look at the classifieds, they look at the full page ads and even read the advertorials.
"Keep talking because those feet in your mouth must taste yummy to you."
---Well, unlike you, at least I don't have my head up my ass.
"Sales occur without the help (or more likely the hindrance) of ad agencies all the time. "
---EXACTLY, with the help. It's a lot easier to sell when ad agencies bring customers to your shop or when a nice infomercial directs callers to a 1-800 number. Ask Richard Simmons, where would he be without his infomercials?
"But I bet you are still willing to take his money, aren't you?"
---Since Bill Gates can't write a radio script worth a damn, then yes, I will take his money. What's wrong about hiring a professional? Sure, you can shoot your daughter's wedding but a professional videographer that actually knows how to work a camera with an editor that actually knows how to make her wedding seem like a movie it's a better idea. Don't do it yourself unless you can do it really well.
"You can't do your job in house with the client and expect people to rush to you because you are "experts.""
---Actually, some clients have in-house agencies, so you're wrong.
"You just make the point. The AE slogan of "don't leave home without it" was proposed by a vice president from American Express itself. It was NOT thought of by some ad agency.
You keep proving my points all the time."
---Whatever, lucky guess on your part.
---Duh, when advertising succeeds and sales climb the jobs of millions are saved.
Let me translate this whole paragraph for you and actually answer the question of how many things have ad agencies done that have actually saved the lives of people. ANSWER: None.
Your answer is another in a long line of an atempted pathetic dodges.
But if you think advertising is useless, I dare you to run a car dealership without it.
Yet not many car dealerships use an ad agency for their ads. You keep trying to say that I am against advertising. I am not. I am against the overpriced, unaccountable, hyped up, fraudulent ad agencies who promise things and when they fail to deliver, blame the client. That is where you get your attitude from, I suppose. It is never your failings - it is always someone else.
---A For Sale sign is not enough if only a few people see it.
Yeah, that pesky internet thing will never catch on.
---EXACTLY, with the help. It's a lot easier to sell when ad agencies bring customers to your shop....
Thank you for admitting that often ad agencies are a hindrance to companies and by extension, sales. You keep making my points for me.
---Since Bill Gates can't write a radio script worth a damn, then yes, I will take his money.
Once again, you make my point for me. You are willing to take money from people without any sort of guarantees of the success of your work. When your work fails, you blame the client.
Don't do it yourself unless you can do it really well.
That hasn't stopped you from arguing things about which you have no clue and are totally ignorant, has it?
Just another case of liberal hypocrisy from you.
---Actually, some clients have in-house agencies, so you're wrong.
Problems reading? What I said was you can't convince your client that he is wrong and yet you expect people to believe that you know what you are doing. You fail at the very first part of the sale - the client - and then expect people to hang on and believe every word that comes from ad agencies.
---Whatever, lucky guess on your part.
Uh..... YOU chose the example, remember?
I would assume that you chose what is, in your mind, the best example to illustrate your point. Now that your point has blown up in your face, you want to abandon it.
You want to really know the difference between people in your industry and steel workers? Steel workers are accountable for their errors. When they screw up, they are the ones that take the blame. You, on the other hand and as demonstrated in your last comment and in previous posts, always blame others.
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