We read:
"A group of atheists is up in arms over the display of a cross at the 9/11 Memorial and Museum. The World Trade Center memorial, which is intended to serve as a reminder of the tragic terror attack that occurred nearly 10 years ago, is scheduled to open on the event's 10th anniversary.
When the Twin Towers collapsed on September 11, 2001, two beams perfectly formed the cross, which many view as both symbolic and iconic. It is this object - a steel cross - that is perfect fodder for atheists and non-believers who do not wish to see any religious items included in the memorial.
According to American Atheists (the same organization that coordinated July 4 plane banners in cities across the nation), the cross' inclusion constitutes an "impermissible mingling of church and state." Despite some opposition, over the weekend, the controversial object was blessed and moved to its new location within the memorial.
With the memorial opening in a month and a half, the cross will surely be on display. The legal battle surrounding it, though, is far from over. American Atheists seem bent on pushing forward until the group's goal of a commemorative museum without the cross is recognized.
Source
24 comments:
A great many people took comfort in the image of the cross that appeared. To demand that image not be part of the memorial is to deliberately exclude those people from the memorial.
That should be sufficient argument to decide the case.
Ahh, the imaginary "seperation" argument again. Not surprising since it's the only tool atheists have. But, what does the Ground Zero site have to do with the State?
Once again, atheists prove that too much freedom, like too much water, will eventually destroy everything in it's path.
Just another complaint from the perpetually offend crowd!
we should load em all up on a boat and ship em to africa. then they can go evolve with the rest of the monkeys
606 - When are you going to realize that we are here to stay? Get used to it, boy.
What do personal attacks have to do with a discussion of freedom of speech ?
I am an atheist and I do not have any objection to crosses in appropriate places such as the memorial !
The historical truth is that the United States WAS a Christian country. The sad truth is that what President Obama (PBUH) stated that the United States is NO LONGER a Christian country is true.
The united States was founded at a time when religious persecution was more about denomination (Catholic vs. Protestant vs. Orthodox etc.) than specific religions (Christianity vs. Islam vs. Judaism, etc.) The simple truth is that most Colonists were very, VERY Christian.
Schools were set up by churches. Books read and learned in school were the Christian Bible or books based on the Christian Bible (cf: "The New England primer".)
And the United States Constitution was even signed and dated, "...in the year of our Lord..." And just who do you think that "Lord" referred to? none other than Jesus Christ Himself.
Times and sentiments have changed, despite the wording of the United States Constitution remaining the same.
The historical truth is that the United States WAS a Christian country.
It was a country whose people were predominantly Christian (overwhelmingly so, really), but it was founded more as a Deist conception, I would say.
So, why don't you and your ilk come out of the 18th century and join the rest of us here in the 21st?
Your suggestion was tried in the 20th century, actually, and the officially atheist nations slaughtered more innocents than had ever been slaughtered throughout history before.
It's funny, when you try and take your ideas to the very extreme, you become an extremist.
It's either that or dropping this stupid fantasy that the world can instantly change for your benefit. It's not gonna happen. i.e. You live a fantasy, and instead of trying to work together or lead by example you sit around bashing the other side making the problem worse.
"AHHH, a 't'!!!!!
IT'S FORCING ME TO QUESTION MY BELIEFS. GET IT AWAY FROM ME"
-Stupid Athiests Uncomfortable with their Own Convictions
Or maybe its more Extremist thought. Should Crosses be hidden from view? I mean, what if you're able to see a church standing on Government property? Does line of site affect you?
Do you think that if this becomes acceptable there will literally be millions of crosses adorning every square inch of the fucking country?
What is your fear?
Explain your viewpoint, use no assumptions. This is the path to the truly logical mind. I find your pathetic weak minded version of atheism laughable.
Athiest: "I think we should replace the letter t/T with a symbol more acceptable to my beliefs."
You're pathetic too.
Oops, one of those "Freedom of religions" should be Christianity.
*Continual fictitious grave dancing..*
"we should load em all up on a boat and ship em to africa. then they can go evolve with the rest of the monkeys"
Wow. Perfect example of extremism. You are saying that black people are monkeys? AND you want to group people up and ship them to another place?
Sounds like what Hitler did. He packed people up and shipped them to death camps. He also dehumanized people, the same thing you are doing, saying that black people are monkeys.
"A great many people took comfort in the image of the cross that appeared. To demand that image not be part of the memorial is to deliberately exclude those people from the memorial.
That should be sufficient argument to decide the case."
Cool, a reasonable viewpoint. I applaud you. Thank you.
But at the same time if other people who were victims want to display their symbols too if they take comfort, this should be perfectly acceptable as well.
And atheists, that stupid Darwin fish doesn't count. Its just hate mongering. Try not inciting hate for once in your life.
Stupid Atheism: going around trying to get people to believe the way you do. Make mockery of peoples core beliefs to make them hate you even more than they already do. Don't try to be reasonable. Make a flying spaghetti monster concept to go around trying to get them to conform to your viewpoint.
Remember, I consider my self some form of Atheist too. But hate incitement just causes problems. If people want to believe in a God, let em. Who cares. Why does it bother you?
If people want to impose their views on you, try to explain why you disagree. Don't resort to hatefully mocking their core belief system. Just walk away, say thank you for your concern for my soul but I'm finding my own path through life. Try to be nice. Why does everything have to be a fucking fight?
Atheists: do you even care about what you believe? Are you so insecure that you have to constantly try and disprove everybody else?
Seriously. Do you care about what you believe in. Why does it bother you that someone can think another way? Does this make you uncomfortable? Well maybe you should examine your belief system a little more.
Otherwise, why should a cross affect what you believe if you don't even believe in it?
What a maroon!
The victims of 9/11 were of many religions and none, so if symbols are thought necessary there could be one for any relevant group including atheists or others such as freemasons, rotarians, etc., etc.
Those responsible for 9/11 were motivated by hate, but I see a lot of hate in many of the above comments and suggestions!
"The victims of 9/11 were of many religions and none, so if symbols are thought necessary there could be one for any relevant group including atheists or others such as freemasons, rotarians, etc., etc.
Those responsible for 9/11 were motivated by hate, but I see a lot of hate in many of the above comments and suggestions!"
Where in the above comments do you see hate? We should identify them and try to remove them. There is no point in trying to incite hate. This leads to people trying to get others to not display the cross at the memorial.
The strongly negative and disparaging remarks about atheists in the above comments certainly reflected a hateful attitude.
The strongly negative and disparaging remarks about atheists in the above comments certainly reflected a hateful attitude.
Really? I have no problem with atheists, but I have a problem with them going around arguing with people of faith. Faith is very important to some people, to constantly have some atheist arguing with them about it doesn't help anything.
Let me guess... you sit around youtube all day posting on anti-atheist/religious videos trying to prove to them why their belief in God is wrong. This doesn't help anything, you're never going to convince them otherwise, especially if it's been a part of their life since they were a child. It is so deeply ingrained in their mind that the only thing you are doing is poking them saying "your worldview is stupid nyaaa nyaaaaa, everything you believe is wrong."
Seriously, I used to go around trying to argue with people too... guess what: it gets you nowhere, all it does is get you and the other person pissed off. If you really wanna discuss faith with someone, try and explain your views, don't try and throw it in their face. If they say something, don't try and prove to them why you think its wrong with some clever little argument... tell them the way you see it without resorting to proving them wrong. It's OK to agree to disagree, trust me. Religious people are just as guilty of this as well, they have no "right" to try and get you to think another way by saying what you believe is stupid.
They are living their lives just fine with their beliefs, the fact that you think otherwise doesn't change that.
The only way your comment makes sense is if you think the whole idea of atheism is to try to go around proving others wrong. If this is how you see it, then yes, my comments were pretty "hateful." But if you really believe in freedom of religion, going around arguing constantly is a self defeating concept. If you think atheism is the way for you, that's great, but if you have to constantly convince yourself of this fact by arguing with others, then I really question whether or not you are truly comfortable with the concept in the first place.
Your comment is "hateful" in nature as well. Instead of trying to pick one of the things I said and try to disagree with it, you just blindly made an accusation without anything to explain or back up your opinion. What are people supposed to do with the words you wrote, take them and apply them to the words I said? That's pretty damn lazy if you ask me. You need to explain yourself, and not resort to petty bickering, which is exactly what you just did.
I wish I had seen your comment before because I want you to read this. I'm sick of people going around arguing like idiots, it accomplishes nothing.
It's funny, you people say I'm hateful? Yet all I'm doing here is trying to bring some more understanding and bridge the gap between people.
Sincerely,
The "Hateful/Schizophrenic/Idiot/Whatever" Troll Who Wrote the posts in Question
4:51 PM - Cute, you could just as well be addressing yourself!
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