Post a vulgar comment while you’re at work, lose your job
We read:
"A single vulgar word cost a man his job on Friday. It all started with Friday’s edition of Talk of the Day, a regular blog on the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s website, STLtoday.com. Talk of the Day is exactly that. A conversation around the water-cooler topic of the day. Friday’s edition is often a little lighter. Last week, it was about the strangest things you’ve ever eaten, loosely pegged on a story about deer meat.
By mid-morning, a number of folks had commented about their experiences with Bird’s Nest Soup, octopus, cow brains and rattlesnake. Then, while I was in our 10 a.m. news meeting, someone posted in reply a single word, a vulgar expression for a part of a woman’s anatomy. It was there only a minute before a colleague deleted it.
A few minutes later, the same guy posted the same single-word comment again. I deleted it, but noticed in the WordPress e-mail alert that his comment had come from an IP address at a local school. So I called the school. They were happy to have me forward the e-mail, though I wasn’t sure what they’d be able to do with the meager information it included.
About six hours later, I heard from the school’s headmaster. The school’s IT director took a shine to the challenge. Long story short: Using the time-frame of the comments, our website location and the IP addresses in the WordPress e-mail, he tracked it back to a specific computer. The headmaster confronted the employee, who resigned on the spot.
Source
32 comments:
Freedom of speech is great, except when it says something you don't like. Then apparently, you can simply void it and punish someone. Of course, where the problem comes in is when something YOU say is found to be offensive by someone, and you are punished.
I would be willing to bet that we will start seeing more stories like this, where the internet is used in a way that "offends" someone or something. Why? To establish a foundation for govt. to control the internet. That argument has already been made. This is just the beginning.
Why was the employee goofing off at work anyway? Was part of their job to read and comment on that website? And coming from a school employee, I would expect a slightly more intelligent comment from them.
"Why was the employee goofing off at work anyway?"
---Maybe he was bored, maybe he didn't have enough work or already did the stuff he was supposed to do, maybe he asked his boss "hey, do you need any help?" and the boss didn't need any help.
"Was part of their job to read and comment on that website?"
---Nope, but if he was bored, it's understandable.
"And coming from a school employee, I would expect a slightly more intelligent comment from them."
---The whole point about blogs is that you can relax and say anything you want.
However, I will agree that when it comes to online usage at work, anything you say and do can be used against you.
And while I do blame the employee for his own undoing, I can sympathize. Honestly, why can't the workplace be a little more flexible? Why is it 9 to 6? Why can't it be 12 to 9 or 10 to 7 or instead of a 9 hour day a 6 hour day?
I think this recession has brought up the worst in companies, we are expected to work more hours, for less money, and be happy to have a job. And here's the worst part, in a time when people are angry they have no way to relief stress at work. Maybe writing in a blog is what allowed that employee to destress and do his job more effectively, but does HR understand that? No, HR doesn't give a crap about employees, they only care about what the company wants. And please don't accuse me of leaning left just because I can relate to the human condition.
There are two interesting things of note in this story:
First, the headline (copied from the source article) is slightly misleading. The guy didn't lose his job, he gave it away. He resigned.
Secondly, the people that reported the use of the word was a writer for the newspaper.
It is interesting to see a newspaper think that speech on their forums need to be reported to someone.
---Nope, but if he was bored, it's understandable.
It may be understandable, but for him to publish (not once but twice) a term that would be offensive and reflect negatively on the school district is not understandable.
I can sympathize.
You can sympathize with an employee that is doing something that has nothing to do with their job, will embarrass the group for which he works and is offensive to many people.
Got it.
No, HR doesn't give a crap about employees, they only care about what the company wants. And please don't accuse me of leaning left just because I can relate to the human condition.
Gosh. How terrible for the school district to not want their employees wasting their time on blogs writing things that are embarrassing to school district. Silly people. They should just pay him and not require him to do anything.
No one has to accuse you of being a leftist. Your own words continually condemn you.
"It may be understandable, but for him to publish (not once but twice) a term that would be offensive and reflect negatively on the school district is not understandable."
---He wasn't warned the first time, so how was he supposed to know what he did was so awful? And why would it reflect on his school unless someone took the time to check the IP? And why did the school cooperate with that woman anyway?
"You can sympathize with an employee that is doing something that has nothing to do with their job, will embarrass the group for which he works and is offensive to many people. Got it."
---A friend of mine used to work in telemarketing, those people are only allowed 2 bathroom breaks during the workday and they have no time to goof off since they're constantly making calls. Other job environments are not that strict, after all, haven't you ever joined your fellow employees during office hours and in the office to sing happy birthday to the boss or a co-worker?
"Gosh. How terrible for the school district to not want their employees wasting their time on blogs writing things that are embarrassing to school district. Silly people. They should just pay him and not require him to do anything."
---He's still cheaper than a government worker at the executive level, the latest Miami scandal is that we had government assholes travelling all over the world with our tax dollars. So let's see, between writing "c-nt" on a blog and flying first class to South Korea to meet with a bunch of industry leaders to tell them that Miami is a great place to visit, please, write "c-nt" and save the taxpayers thousands of dollars.
I guess "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
So, a newspaper revealed a source of information. Even though the source may have used a handle name for anonymity, the newspaper tracked the person down via the IP address and reported him to the authorities.
If they didn't like what the guy had to say then delete what he posted and block him, they could have just blocked his IP address. After all, the newspaper asked for responses, it doesn't mean they'll hear what they want to hear.
---He wasn't warned the first time, so how was he supposed to know what he did was so awful?
Other than the fact that the newspaper removed his comment? And then he chose to repost it again?
And why would it reflect on his school unless someone took the time to check the IP?
You mean like the newspaper and the school did? Or is it your position that the employee should be able to post vulgar comments on blogs while being paid to do something else?
And why did the school cooperate with that woman anyway?
There is no woman in the story. The gender of the person from the Post who deleted the comment the first time is not identified. The guy who deleted the comment the second time is the reporter, who is a man. The headmaster of the school who confronted the employee is a man.
Making up characters in the story now?
Other job environments are not that strict, after all, haven't you ever joined your fellow employees during office hours and in the office to sing happy birthday to the boss or a co-worker?
Of course, this has nothing to do with the story, but we've come to expect that from you.
---He's still cheaper than a government worker at the executive level, the latest Miami scandal is that we had government assholes travelling all over the world with our tax dollars.
And of course, this has nothing to do with the story as well.
You are just trying to deflect the blame of the employee in this story onto others. Once again, your meme is "management and companies bad, employees good."
I guess "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."
I'm sorry, did I miss something? Did the headmaster of the school in this story post the term on the blog?
If that were the case, then your point would be relevant. As it is, you are just showing the leftist tendency to not hold people accountable for their actions.
"Other than the fact that the newspaper removed his comment? And then he chose to repost it again?"
---Maybe he didn't like being censored.
"And why would it reflect on his school unless someone took the time to check the IP?"
---The question other readers have raised is why would anyone take the time to check the IP? There's nothing illegal in writing c-nt.
"You mean like the newspaper and the school did? Or is it your position that the employee should be able to post vulgar comments on blogs while being paid to do something else?"
---My point is this, at anncoulter.com sometimes people post vicious things and those get removed, but neither Ann Coulter nor whoever rans her blog takes the time to persecute people who post offensive things.
As for the school, if they're going to fire people for posting c-nt then they should have fired me for yelling "F-ck you" to an employee who was annoying me. Yet they didn't fire me for that, in fact, I didn't even get a warming or had to talk to HR. Perhaps my former employer cared about other things more important than a moment of vulgarity.
"Making up characters in the story now? "
---I thought the reporter was a woman, females get upset over stuff like that.
"You are just trying to deflect the blame of the employee in this story onto others. Once again, your meme is "management and companies bad, employees good."
---It's always the little people that get blamed, if the guy had been a big fish manager then he would be suing the newspaper for invading his privacy. Besides, your meme is "management is good and employees are bad."
"I'm sorry, did I miss something? Did the headmaster of the school in this story post the term on the blog?"
---If he had I doubt he would have gotten fired or been forced to resign.
"If that were the case, then your point would be relevant. As it is, you are just showing the leftist tendency to not hold people accountable for their actions."
---You don't believe in forgiveness and redemption? You don't believe in second chances? At some ad agencies they count the number of times you show up late for example, managers remember the employee who screws up constantly vs. the one that rarely makes mistakes. Do you think it's fair to fire this guy for one offense? Is there evidence he has done this again and again after being warned not to?
Besides, the leftists will hold you accountable for your actions if you're politically incorrect, an NRA member, offensive, etc. Go to huffington post and all you're gonna see is the feminazis yelling "screw him, he deserves to get fired."
There are other ways to handle this situation, maybe he can get a one day suspension, be forced to write a letter of apology or attend sensitivity training.
The economy is bad, I don't know where you live but unemployment in Miami is 11% and in Detroit it's 17%. I've been unemployed since february so I have a soft heart for the working Joe's and Janette's struggling in corporate America under long hours and low wages. I would rather give them the benefit of the doubt than some stupid newspaper.
In fact, I'm glad newspapers are going out of business, maybe that reporter will get fired and then she will know what it feels to ruin someone's livelyhood.
---Maybe he didn't like being censored.
There ya go. You believe the worker did nothing wrong, so his breaking the forum rules can be justified. If you don't like your posts being moderated and cannot conform with the rules of someone's else's website, don't post there.
---The question other readers have raised is why would anyone take the time to check the IP? There's nothing illegal in writing c-nt.
You realize that you just responded to yourself, don't you? And in cased you missed it, he used the actual word and the use of the word was a violation of the terms of service of the StLP site. But I keep forgetting that rules don't apply to you. You are better suited to know what is best for people and last but not least, you feel you have the right to run someone else's business.
---My point is this, at anncoulter.com sometimes people post vicious things and those get removed, but neither Ann Coulter nor whoever rans her blog takes the time to persecute people who post offensive things.
I see. So the choice that one site makes must apply to all sites?
---I thought the reporter was a woman, females get upset over stuff like that.
Mature males get upset over it as well. But once again, you made something up in order to fit your conception of the world.
---It's always the little people that get blamed, if the guy had been a big fish manager then he would be suing the newspaper for invading his privacy.
The little guy was guilty. He was not blamed for anything other than what he did. Secondly, he had no expectation of privacy when he posted as the school owns the computers, lines and access that he used.
Besides, your meme is "management is good and employees are bad."
Wow. I guess you told me, eh? Of course your accusation isn't true, but truth never was your strong point.
---You don't believe in forgiveness and redemption?
Forgiveness, redemption and second chances are all based on accountability. You want the former without the latter.
Do you think it's fair to fire this guy for one offense?
He wasn't fired. Your point is moot.
In fact, I'm glad newspapers are going out of business, maybe that reporter will get fired and then she will know what it feels to ruin someone's livelyhood.
There ya go. Leftist empathy and compassion in action.
By the way, Bobby, you keep saying that the "little guy" was persecuted and "fired."
What proof do you have that this was a "little guy?"
How do you know that the guy who resigned was not a department head, supervisor, or director?
In case you are missing the point, there is no indication of the person's position in the school district.
Once again, you made something up to fit your view of the world.
Workplace Internet Policies are generally very strictly worded, and are used exactly for this purpose - to prevent people from being idiots at work.
Read your own workplace internet policy, and you will find out that you are probably in violation just reading this blog - and you could be terminated.
At my own workplace, we have to sign an agreement saying we have "read and understand" our rights and responsibilities under such an agreement. I suspect this guy also was under such an agreement, and he knew that he was in violation.
Anon 5:14, there is no such thing as freedom of speech at your place of employment. The person has no business using one of their computers for personal business anyway. I am about as conservative as can be and even I understand that.
It doesnt matter at some jobs.. I work in IT and whenever someone is giving a tour of our facility they always come by my desk. There was a tour last week that had this one smoking hot chick and one possible milf.. I sent an IM to a former employee about the girls, but after i sent it I realized, I sent the IM to the director of IT who was giving the tour. Thank God he was a guy who could relate.
"Mature males get upset over it as well. But once again, you made something up in order to fit your conception of the world."
---I once came to work wearing flip-flops which was allowed at one of my companies and the boss made fun of my feet. Yet did I sue? Did I complain to HR? Did I get my boss fired? No, I simply wore shoes the next time. So I think I do qualify as a mature male.
"Forgiveness, redemption and second chances are all based on accountability. You want the former without the latter."
---Jesus forgave a woman who commited adultery, one of the worst sins in judaism, punishable by stoning. So firing a guy for writing "c-nt" seems excessive to me.
"He wasn't fired. Your point is moot."
---Maybe they asked him to resign, which is the same thing as firing the guy.
"There ya go. Leftist empathy and compassion in action."
----Funny, the reason I hate newspaper is because they are dominated by leftist. Only The New York Post prints my letter to the editor, the so-called "mainstream" newspapers do not. In fact, Bill O'reilly and others have said time and time again that lamestream newspapers are failing BECAUSE they are too leftwing and too unwilling to publish other views.
So yes, I have no empathy for those who are unlikely to change. I will however forgive first time offenses if said offenses aren't serious enough.
---I once came to work wearing flip-flops
Yeah...... professional, mature males always wear flip flops to their work.
---Jesus forgave a woman who commited adultery, one of the worst sins in judaism, punishable by stoning.
I guessed you missed the fact that Christ held her accountable for the adultery. In other words, thanks for making my point.
So firing a guy for writing "c-nt" seems excessive to me.
No matter how much you want to repeat the lie, it doesn't change the fact that he was not fired.
---Maybe they asked him to resign, which is the same thing as firing the guy.
Proof please.
So yes, I have no empathy for those who are unlikely to change.
No empathy for yourself?
I will however forgive first time offenses if said offenses aren't serious enough.
In the real world, we call that "moral relativism." So how many things does a person have to steal to make them a thief? How many lies does a person have to tell before they are a liar?
You are confusing the penalty and accountability.
In your world there is no accountability and only penalties that you feel are appropriate.
Luckily the real world doesn't work that way.
Yeah...... professional, mature males always wear flip flops to their work.
---When in Rome... Dude, if your work environment is casual and you come to work wearing a suit, you're the one who's gonna looks ridiculous.
"I guessed you missed the fact that Christ held her accountable for the adultery. In other words, thanks for making my point."
---No, He said "go on and sin no more." He forgave her. By your standards, Jesus should have forgiven her and then stone her, since accountability is so important to you. I don't get it, you don't like it when liberals ridicule Prejean for the sex videos she made when she was young, yet you can't forgive a guy who wrote "c-nt."
"No matter how much you want to repeat the lie, it doesn't change the fact that he was not fired."
---Tell me, if I give you a choice between commiting suicide or being tortured to death, will you not die in the end? When you ask an employee for his resignation, do you think you won't fire him if he says "no, I won't resign."
"Proof please."
---Well, since I wasn't there and you weren't there, we're only stuck with assumptions.
"No empathy for yourself?"
---I'm actually very hard on myself, and I have changed a lot.
"In the real world, we call that "moral relativism." So how many things does a person have to steal to make them a thief? How many lies does a person have to tell before they are a liar?"
---So what you're saying is that anyone who uses a bad word should get fired or asked to resign?
"In your world there is no accountability and only penalties that you feel are appropriate."
---Yes, judges do that all the time. In fact, a judge can even dismiss the case if he feels the merits are lacking.
"Luckily the real world doesn't work that way."
---Bill Clinton commited adultery (a crime), lied about it (another crime), was impeached for it yet not convict it.
Sammy "The Bull" Gravano killed over 20+ people, yet because he agreed to testify for the government his sentence was only 4 years.
Should I go on? The real world does work that way.
---When in Rome... Dude, if your work environment is casual and you come to work wearing a suit, you're the one who's gonna looks ridiculous.
As opposed to a wearing flip flops to work? There is a difference between "casual" and "amateurish." There is a difference between appropriate and immature.
---No, He said "go on and sin no more."
Thank you. Notice how Christ holds her accountable for her sin. He does not make excuses for it. He does not try to justify it. She is held accountable for her sin.
By your standards, Jesus should have forgiven her and then stone her, since accountability is so important to you.
Once again you illustrate that you do not understand the difference between accountability and a punishment or consequences.
I don't get it, you don't like it when liberals ridicule Prejean for the sex videos she made when she was young, yet you can't forgive a guy who wrote "c-nt."
Once again you illustrate that you do not understand the difference between accountability and a punishment or consequences.
---When you ask an employee for his resignation, do you think you won't fire him if he says "no, I won't resign."
Do you have any proof that the employee was told he was going to be fired?
---Well, since I wasn't there and you weren't there, we're only stuck with assumptions.
No, you are stuck with assumptions and lies. The man resigned. He was not fired as you have repeatedly contended.
---I'm actually very hard on myself, and I have changed a lot.
Become more of a leftist, I suppose.
---So what you're saying is that anyone who uses a bad word should get fired or asked to resign?
Being that there is no evidence that the employee was asked to resign or fired, there is no need to answer this. When you get back to the real world, let me know.
---Yes, judges do that all the time. In fact, a judge can even dismiss the case if he feels the merits are lacking.
There is no nice way of putting this. You're a moron. Really. Here you have a case where a guy does something wrong,, admits the wrong doing, and you want to try and equate that to a case without merits.
---Bill Clinton commited adultery (a crime), lied about it (another crime), was impeached for it yet not convict it.
Adultery is not a crime in any state of the union. It is not a crime in Arkansas and not in the District of Columbia. Once again, you have lied.
That being said,, for the third time.....
Once again you illustrate that you do not understand the difference between accountability and a punishment or consequences.
Sammy "The Bull" Gravano killed over 20+ people, yet because he agreed to testify for the government his sentence was only 4 years.
Once again you illustrate that you do not understand the difference between accountability and a punishment or consequences.
Should I go on? The real world does work that way.
If you wish to continue to prove to the world what a liar, moron, ignorant person you are, sure. Go ahead.
"As opposed to a wearing flip flops to work? There is a difference between "casual" and "amateurish." There is a difference between appropriate and immature."
---You know Crispin Porter? They're one of the best ad agencies in America and people are allowed to wear flip flops there. Why? Because it gives the employees a sense of freedom, specially when they have to put 12 or 14 hour days. Your values may be popular, but they're not universal.
"Thank you. Notice how Christ holds her accountable for her sin. He does not make excuses for it. He does not try to justify it. She is held accountable for her sin."
---Yes, she is held accountable yet she isn't punished. This employee was held accountable and punished. What would be wrong with suspending him without pay? They do that to cops, you know.
"Do you have any proof that the employee was told he was going to be fired?"
---Why else would he have resigned?
"No, you are stuck with assumptions and lies. The man resigned. He was not fired as you have repeatedly contended."
---Yes, the question is why did he resigned? Was he threatened? Was he told "if you don't quit the newspaper will do a story about you?" In politics sometimes people are asked to take the fall for a politician, to plead guilty or to resign. I'm a lot more cynical than you, I think you take things at face value.
"Adultery is not a crime in any state of the union. It is not a crime in Arkansas and not in the District of Columbia. Once again, you have lied."
---Right, I forgot that in today's America your wife can sleep with the mail man and you still have to give her 50% of your assets. However, lying under oath about adultery is a crime.
---You know Crispin Porter? They're one of the best ad agencies in America and people are allowed to wear flip flops there.
Tell ya what. Go apply to them and make sure when you do, that you are wearing flip flops. Get back to me on how that goes.
Secondly, I guarantee that your belief that all employees at Crispin Porter can wear flip flops is incorrect.
---Yes, she is held accountable yet she isn't punished.
No wonder you think wearing flip flops is a great idea. When I said earlier that she was held accountable, you said No, He said "go on and sin no more."
So which story do you want to stick to? Which statement did you make in error?
You like flip flops because they epitomize who you are.
This employee was held accountable and punished.
Sorry. The employee was confronted and he resigned. You are fabricating events again.
What would be wrong with suspending him without pay?
How do you expect the school district to suspend an employee that no longer works for them because they resigned?
---Why else would he have resigned?
There are a lot of reasons. People resign all the time. The fact of the matter is that while we do not know the reasons. we do know that the employee was not fired as you have contended.
---Yes, the question is why did he resigned?
"Why did he resigned?" Is that sentence actually from a communications major? Unbelievable.
It doesn't matter why he resigned. What matters is that you continually have lied about the employee being fired.
He resigned. End of story.
In politics sometimes people are asked to take the fall for a politician, to plead guilty or to resign.
Do you have any proof that is the case here? Or is your assertion another lie on your part?
I'm a lot more cynical than you, I think you take things at face value.
If "cynical" means "intellectually dishonest, willing to lie, fabricate, flip flop, and blame others for ones actions, you are more "cynical."
That has nothing to do with this situation though.
---Right, I forgot that in today's America your wife can sleep with the mail man and you still have to give her 50% of your assets.
Actually that is not true either. It amazes me that you can't even admit that you were wrong. Then to try and avert the fact that you were wrong, you make up another lie.
However, lying under oath about adultery is a crime.
What does that matter to you? It was the first time that he lied under oath, so surely you aren't saying that he should have been removed from office? It is just a little lie, right? First offense, right?
That is what you have been preaching all this time, right? Just a minor infraction and Clinton just needed to be forgiven and we should all just get on with our lives.
There it is. Your hypocrisy in action. You are mad that Clinton walked away but when the same standard of a "minor infraction" is applied to someone else, you scream like a stuck pig.
"Tell ya what. Go apply to them and make sure when you do, that you are wearing flip flops. Get back to me on how that goes."
---Duh, you don't wear flip flops the day of the interview, although you can wear casual, nobody in advertising wears suits unless they're account executives, and even they only dress up to meet clients .
"Secondly, I guarantee that your belief that all employees at Crispin Porter can wear flip flops is incorrect."
---My office was next to Crispin's in Coconut Grove, I saw DOZENS of employees wearing flip flops AND shorts everyday. They are NOT a traditional company.
"No wonder you think wearing flip flops is a great idea."
---They're very convenient, shoes and socks start to burn after a certain number of hours.
"You like flip flops because they epitomize who you are."
---That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Frankly, what I like is freedom. If I don't have a job where meeting customers or clients is a daily thing, who cares what I wear? Buddy, the 1950s are over, the old days of wearing a suit and tie with a hat are gone. At one job I remember spending $600 buying a suit to wear for the Holiday party, I thought it would be nice to dress like an executive for once, 3 months later I got fired. So you see? Clothes don't mean crap.
"we do know that the employee was not fired as you have contended."
---We don't know why he resigned, I'm speculating different scenarios yet you do not care for such reasons. Since you're fascinated by the law, I'll give you a court example. Sometimes the police will interrogate a suspect for more than 20 hours, often without letting him sleep, sometimes coercion is alledged, and sometimes that suspect will give a confession only to change his confession once the alledged coercion has gone away. So you may say "he resign" while I say "they asked him to resign, they threaten him with public humiliation of he didn't resign." You take things at face value, I speculate.
""Why did he resigned?" Is that sentence actually from a communications major? Unbelievable."
---So I made a spelling mistake, big freaking deal.
"Actually that is not true either. It amazes me that you can't even admit that you were wrong. Then to try and avert the fact that you were wrong, you make up another lie."
---Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Are you happy now, Father Annonymous?
"That is what you have been preaching all this time, right? Just a minor infraction and Clinton just needed to be forgiven and we should all just get on with our lives."
---The difference is that Clinton was forgiven yet this guy wasn't. Clinton kept his job yet this guy lost his. Clinton's crime was 1000 times worst yet who got away with it? Billy.
"There it is. Your hypocrisy in action. You are mad that Clinton walked away but when the same standard of a "minor infraction" is applied to someone else, you scream like a stuck pig."
---Tell me this, if POTUS can get away with shagging and intern in the oval office and lying about it, why can't some poor schmuck get away with writing c-nt?
Once again the underdog loses while the liberal elite wins.
"Tell ya what. Go apply to them and make sure when you do, that you are wearing flip flops. Get back to me on how that goes."
---Duh, you don't wear flip flops the day of the interview, although you can wear casual, nobody in advertising wears suits unless they're account executives, and even they only dress up to meet clients .
"Secondly, I guarantee that your belief that all employees at Crispin Porter can wear flip flops is incorrect."
---My office was next to Crispin's in Coconut Grove, I saw DOZENS of employees wearing flip flops AND shorts everyday. They are NOT a traditional company.
"No wonder you think wearing flip flops is a great idea."
---They're very convenient, shoes and socks start to burn after a certain number of hours.
"You like flip flops because they epitomize who you are."
---That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Frankly, what I like is freedom. If I don't have a job where meeting customers or clients is a daily thing, who cares what I wear? Buddy, the 1950s are over, the old days of wearing a suit and tie with a hat are gone. At one job I remember spending $600 buying a suit to wear for the Holiday party, I thought it would be nice to dress like an executive for once, 3 months later I got fired. So you see? Clothes don't mean crap.
"we do know that the employee was not fired as you have contended."
---We don't know why he resigned, I'm speculating different scenarios yet you do not care for such reasons. Since you're fascinated by the law, I'll give you a court example. Sometimes the police will interrogate a suspect for more than 20 hours, often without letting him sleep, sometimes coercion is alledged, and sometimes that suspect will give a confession only to change his confession once the alledged coercion has gone away. So you may say "he resign" while I say "they asked him to resign, they threaten him with public humiliation of he didn't resign." You take things at face value, I speculate.
""Why did he resigned?" Is that sentence actually from a communications major? Unbelievable."
---So I made a spelling mistake, big freaking deal.
"Actually that is not true either. It amazes me that you can't even admit that you were wrong. Then to try and avert the fact that you were wrong, you make up another lie."
---Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Are you happy now, Father Annonymous?
"That is what you have been preaching all this time, right? Just a minor infraction and Clinton just needed to be forgiven and we should all just get on with our lives."
---The difference is that Clinton was forgiven yet this guy wasn't. Clinton kept his job yet this guy lost his. Clinton's crime was 1000 times worst yet who got away with it? Billy.
"There it is. Your hypocrisy in action. You are mad that Clinton walked away but when the same standard of a "minor infraction" is applied to someone else, you scream like a stuck pig."
---Tell me this, if POTUS can get away with shagging and intern in the oval office and lying about it, why can't some poor schmuck get away with writing c-nt?
Once again the underdog loses while the liberal elite wins.
---Duh, you don't wear flip flops the day of the interview, although you can wear casual, nobody in advertising wears suits unless they're account executives, and even they only dress up to meet clients .
Oh wait... you mean that everyone at Crispin Porter doesn't wear flip flops? Who would have guessed that?
---My office was next to Crispin's in Coconut Grove, I saw DOZENS of employees wearing flip flops AND shorts everyday. They are NOT a traditional company.
So? I guarantee that not everyone in the company has the freedom to wear flip flops.
Oh, and by the way, the latest production and work related studies that show companies that allow such casualness are actually less efficient, less productive and less creative than those who demand professional business attire. The best seems to be somewhere in the middle such as "professional casual" or "casual professional."
---They're very convenient, shoes and socks start to burn after a certain number of hours.
Every time I think you can't say something dumber than you have in the past, you come up with something.
---That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.
Why? In this discussion you have flipped flopped on accountability. In our previous discussion you flipped flopped at least twice on issues.
Frankly, what I like is freedom.
This is not about freedom. This is about your intellectual dishonesty. You are free to be dishonest, but don't expect to not have people call you on it.
At one job I remember spending $600 buying a suit to wear for the Holiday party, I thought it would be nice to dress like an executive for once, 3 months later I got fired. So you see? Clothes don't mean crap.
Gosh, I guess you told me, huh? What you wore at a party means that you shouldn't be fired. Talk about a cognitive disconnect.
---We don't know why he resigned, I'm speculating different scenarios yet you do not care for such reasons.
The problem is that you try and make those speculations as statements of fact. Despite knowing that he resigned, you keep claiming he was fired. That's dishonest.
Sometimes the police will interrogate a suspect for more than 20 hours, often without letting him sleep,
Such tactics are illegal. They have been for years.
You take things at face value, I speculate.
You made a typo here. The actual sentence you meant to type was "You tell the truth, I lie." You should go back and change that.
---Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa. Are you happy now, Father Annonymous?
Wow. You can't even apologize like an adult.
---The difference is that Clinton was forgiven yet this guy wasn't.
How do you know this guy wasn't forgiven?
---Tell me this, if POTUS can get away with shagging and intern in the oval office and lying about it, why can't some poor schmuck get away with writing c-nt?
The POTUS choose not to resign. The other guy resigned.
This comes back to your basic bias and hypocrisy. You keep saying that the employee would have been or was fired without a shred of evidence to support that.
You were the one who kept saying that minor things should be overlooked and because a president that you don't like made a minor mistake, you think there is some great injustice.
The only injustice is your hypocrisy, your intellectual dishonesty, and your lack of professionalism.
Once again the underdog loses while the liberal elite wins.
Don't worry, you and your liberal friends won't win forever.
"Oh wait... you mean that everyone at Crispin Porter doesn't wear flip flops? Who would have guessed that?"
---My point is people have the CHOICE to wear or not wear flip flops. If you like shoes you can wear shoes.
"So? I guarantee that not everyone in the company has the freedom to wear flip flops."
---You think it would be legal to have different rules for different employees? Besides, I saw what I saw, the people wearing flip flops where young, in their 20s and 30s, I doubt many of them where at the executive level.
"Oh, and by the way, the latest production and work related studies that show companies that allow such casualness are actually less efficient, less productive and less creative than those who demand professional business attire."
---Please cite a study, I would love to read it, specially since I've read the opposite.
"The problem is that you try and make those speculations as statements of fact. Despite knowing that he resigned, you keep claiming he was fired. That's dishonest."
---I'm speculating he was asked to resign. Why does that possibility seem so remote for you? Unlike The Apprentice, sometimes an employer will say "I expect your resignation at the end of the day."
"Such tactics are illegal. They have been for years."
---Yet they do occur, ask any criminal defense attorney.
"Wow. You can't even apologize like an adult."
---I'm not dealing with an adult. There, you see? I can be just as nasty as you. Why should I apologize to you? You're already gloating without my help.
"This comes back to your basic bias and hypocrisy. You keep saying that the employee would have been or was fired without a shred of evidence to support that."
---In my career the only time I've ever resigned a job was after finding another job. Everyone knows that quitting a job without having another job to go to is financial suicide. In my personal experience, I've gotten in trouble at every company I've worked for. I've been caugh using online dating sites, showing up to work late, making spelling mistakes, having nasty arguments with my co-workers, writing 60 seconds commercials that lasted 65 or 70 seconds and then had to be edited in the studio costing the client money and time, yet I have never ever said "I quit" no matter what the boss told me. Why? Because jobs are precious and rare and you have to keep yours as long as you can no matter what.
"You were the one who kept saying that minor things should be overlooked and because a president that you don't like made a minor mistake, you think there is some great injustice."
---Perhaps you're right, maybe Bill Clinton made a minor mistake, maybe it was right not to convict him. Yet this c-nt writing employee also made a minor mistake, and he resigned his job after being confronted by his boss. I just have to wonder what the boss told him.
"Don't worry, you and your liberal friends won't win forever."
---My liberal friends? Tell me, how exactly do you define a liberal? You see, I look at a wide variety of social issues such as this:
Death Penalty.
Abortion.
Same-sex marriage.
Taxes.
Social Security.
Public Healthcare.
The Second Amendment
Free Speech
Public Expressions of Religion
Environmentalism
Free Trade
Protectionism
Drug Policy
Pornography
etc.
Then I count the number of issues a person lies in the conservative side vs. the liberal side.
Say a man was a perfect republican in every issue but abortion, would you call him a liberal? That's like calling George W. Bush a liberal because he bailed out the banks and spent millions in aid to Africa.
I am not a perfect conservative but that don't mean I'm a liberal.
---My point is people have the CHOICE to wear or not wear flip flops. If you like shoes you can wear shoes.
Another flip flop.
---You think it would be legal to have different rules for different employees?
There ya go. You see, you are all for "freedom" and "choice" when it benefits you, but for other employees, well, they can rot. And here you were talking about the "liberal elite" not realizing that it applies to you and what you advocate.
---Please cite a study, I would love to read it, specially since I've read the opposite.
No you haven't since I guarantee the nuance of the subject has escaped you.
---I'm speculating he was asked to resign.
There is no support for that speculation. That is what you are missing. You continually state his resignation was forced without a shred of evidence to support it.
---Yet they do occur, ask any criminal defense attorney.
You mean like my neighbor? The defense attorney? We have talked about the subject before and he says that in 30 years of practice, he has never seen sleep deprivation coerce a confession. That is why confessions are taped, to remove any doubt about the coercion being used.
Of course, the fact that you are trying to say that this guy was coerced by sleep deprivation or any other illegal tactic is another lie from you.
---I'm not dealing with an adult. There, you see? I can be just as nasty as you. Why should I apologize to you? You're already gloating without my help.
Why should you admit that you were wrong? Because it is the adult thing to do. It is what a person that understands that they are accountable for their actions would do. It is what a conservative would do.
You don't because it is a liberal trait not to admit lying, deceitfulness, and being incorrect.
---In my career the only time I've ever resigned a job was after finding another job.
Gee, why does it give me no comfort to realize that you have been fired or laid off from every other job?
In my personal experience, I've gotten in trouble at every company I've worked for.
And yet you feel that you should tell others how to run their companies?
I just have to wonder what the boss told him.
How about you wonder what position the employee held? Ever think of that? You want speculation? I can play that game too. Maybe the employee was the dean of women. Maybe the employee had been disciplined for other sexual harassment issues in the past. Maybe the employee was in charge of, or part of a human resource team. Maybe the employee was a teacher who taught girls. Maybe the employee was the person responsible for EEO issues.
Maybe if you looked at both side of the issue, you would see that the person might have lost all credibility within the school district and felt they could not continue in their position.
Ever think of that ?
Of course you haven't.
---My liberal friends?
Yep. The ones you have mentioned in the past. Are you now saying that you don't have liberal friends Mr Flip Flop?
I am not a perfect conservative but that don't mean I'm a liberal.
Sheez... let me fix that for you too.....
"I may not be a radical liberal, but that doesn't mean I am not a liberal."
Your own words and actions convict you, Flipper.
"Of course, the fact that you are trying to say that this guy was coerced by sleep deprivation or any other illegal tactic is another lie from you."
---I did not say that and you know it. However, unlike you I know that employees can be asked to resign.
"You don't because it is a liberal trait not to admit lying, deceitfulness, and being incorrect."
---Two of my best friends in the world are liberal, yet they do not lie nor are deceitful. Whatever shortcomings I may have don't have anything to do with my politics.
"Gee, why does it give me no comfort to realize that you have been fired or laid off from every other job? "
---Perhaps because a perfect employee like you knows that even when you're perfect someone can still find you wrong and fire your ass. I should know, I've seen people who are way better than me get fired. I've seen people who worked like dogs and gave their companies 110% get fired. Besides, your character would be questionable if you took joy in the failings of someone else.
"And yet you feel that you should tell others how to run their companies?"
---Because I've also had great moments. I've sold ideas, produced commercials, won an award... Of course, if a company can find an employee who's more creative, who stays after 6 everyday, who can handle office politics, who's socially outgoing and who's better, then off with the old and in with the new. I know, because at every job I had I was the "new."
"Maybe if you looked at both side of the issue, you would see that the person might have lost all credibility within the school district and felt they could not continue in their position."
---As a former copywriter, there where days I felt I was the worst writer in the entire world and should just quit. Yet did I quit after having my ideas rejected? Did I quit after fighting with my co-workers? No, I kept going because I knew eventually I would do something great and save my job for another day.
"Yep. The ones you have mentioned in the past. Are you now saying that you don't have liberal friends Mr Flip Flop?"
---Is it a bad thing to have liberal friends? Does that automatically make you a liberal? Or should I submit my friends to the Central Republican Committee for their approval?
"I may not be a radical liberal, but that doesn't mean I am not a liberal."
---Whatever, you call me a liberal here, at huffingtonpost they would call me a rightwing extremist.
"Of course, the fact that you are trying to say that this guy was coerced by sleep deprivation or any other illegal tactic is another lie from you."
---I did not say that and you know it. However, unlike you I know that employees can be asked to resign.
"You don't because it is a liberal trait not to admit lying, deceitfulness, and being incorrect."
---Two of my best friends in the world are liberal, yet they do not lie nor are deceitful. Whatever shortcomings I may have don't have anything to do with my politics.
"Gee, why does it give me no comfort to realize that you have been fired or laid off from every other job? "
---Perhaps because a perfect employee like you knows that even when you're perfect someone can still find you wrong and fire your ass. I should know, I've seen people who are way better than me get fired. I've seen people who worked like dogs and gave their companies 110% get fired. Besides, your character would be questionable if you took joy in the failings of someone else.
"And yet you feel that you should tell others how to run their companies?"
---Because I've also had great moments. I've sold ideas, produced commercials, won an award... Of course, if a company can find an employee who's more creative, who stays after 6 everyday, who can handle office politics, who's socially outgoing and who's better, then off with the old and in with the new. I know, because at every job I had I was the "new."
"Maybe if you looked at both side of the issue, you would see that the person might have lost all credibility within the school district and felt they could not continue in their position."
---As a former copywriter, there where days I felt I was the worst writer in the entire world and should just quit. Yet did I quit after having my ideas rejected? Did I quit after fighting with my co-workers? No, I kept going because I knew eventually I would do something great and save my job for another day.
"Yep. The ones you have mentioned in the past. Are you now saying that you don't have liberal friends Mr Flip Flop?"
---Is it a bad thing to have liberal friends? Does that automatically make you a liberal? Or should I submit my friends to the Central Republican Committee for their approval?
"I may not be a radical liberal, but that doesn't mean I am not a liberal."
---Whatever, you call me a liberal here, at huffingtonpost they would call me a rightwing extremist.
---I did not say that and you know it. However, unlike you I know that employees can be asked to resign.
Once again, do you have any proof that happened in this case?
You try to make general statements and then apply them to specific situations.
---Two of my best friends in the world are liberal, yet they do not lie nor are deceitful. Whatever shortcomings I may have don't have anything to do with my politics.
Wait a sec. Before you said you didn't have liberal friends. Now your two best friends are liberals. Another flip flop from you. And your shortcomings in the world are defined by your politics. It is clear what you are.
---Because I've also had great moments.
Which is why you are employed now, right?
But once again, you skipped the point. There are a lot of reasons why the employee resigned. You just can't bring yourself to admit that. You can only take the liberal side and think that he was wronged for his action of resigning.
You're not even a RINO. You're simply an dishonest, intellectual child who lives in his mother's basement and wants pizza rolls for dinner.
---Is it a bad thing to have liberal friends? Does that automatically make you a liberal? Or should I submit my friends to the Central Republican Committee for their approval?
These are the liberal friends you said you didn't have? Those friends?
---Whatever, you call me a liberal here, at huffingtonpost they would call me a rightwing extremist.
Gee, there is a source that I would trust.
See ya Flipper.
"Once again, do you have any proof that happened in this case?"
---Nobody has any proof unless they where directly involved, that's why we make assumptions here based on what we know.
"Wait a sec. Before you said you didn't have liberal friends."
---Perhaps I got confused.
"And your shortcomings in the world are defined by your politics. It is clear what you are."
---No they're not. If they where I would be a socialist who desired big government to take care of me. Yet inspite of my failures to survive in a job for more than 3 years without getting fired, I don't believe in socialism.
"Which is why you are employed now, right?"
---There's a lot of people unemployed right now, that doesn't mean they're all untalented hacks who didn't deserve to have a job in the first place. This recession has destroyed many industries, there are creative directors that used to make $100k+ who are not desperate for jobs that pay $50k. There are MBA graduates selling fruit on the streets and talented executives doing janitorial work. For example, BBDO is closing their office in Detroit, they coudln't agree with Chrysler on a contract and now 400 people are gonna lose their jobs. If Chrysler was moving the account to a better agency I would respect them, but they're just gonna do the same crappy ads they did with BBDO, clients never change.
"But once again, you skipped the point. There are a lot of reasons why the employee resigned. You just can't bring yourself to admit that. You can only take the liberal side and think that he was wronged for his action of resigning."
---That's not the liberal side, the liberal side is that the employee was bad because 1. He was politically incorrect. 2. He used a curse word. The conservative side is that 1. He was irresponsible. 2. Blogging wasn't part of his job description. My side has nothing to do with politics but sympathy for the underdog.
"You're not even a RINO. You're simply an dishonest, intellectual child who lives in his mother's basement and wants pizza rolls for dinner."
---Now you're doing what you accuse me of doing, making stuff up.
---Nobody has any proof unless they where directly involved, that's why we make assumptions here based on what we know.
We are going around and around on this. The guy resigned. You and your liberal friends are worried that he was not able to make a decision on his own nest interests and so you feel you must attack the school district.
---Perhaps I got confused.
Just another example that you are a dyed in the wool liberal.
---There's a lot of people unemployed right now, that doesn't mean they're all untalented hacks who didn't deserve to have a job in the first place.
I agree. But you are a hack.
1. He was irresponsible. 2. Blogging wasn't part of his job description. My side has nothing to do with politics but sympathy for the underdog.
You seem to forget that you excused his blogging because he was "bored." You then started to claim that he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. (That would be the "irresponsible" part.)
Thanks for proving your liberal roots, Flipper.
---Now you're doing what you accuse me of doing, making stuff up.
What? Did the truth hurt your liberal feelings Flipper?
Awwww..... maybe you can have an extra helping of pizza rolls.
"I agree. But you are a hack."
---I knew you'd said that. Well, maybe I am. But at least I don't resign!
"You seem to forget that you excused his blogging because he was "bored." You then started to claim that he shouldn't be accountable for his actions. (That would be the "irresponsible" part.)"
---So? I told you I had sympathy for the underdog. That wasn't spin.
"What? Did the truth hurt your liberal feelings Flipper?"
---Please, the only reason I debate you is because you amuse me.
"Awwww..... maybe you can have an extra helping of pizza rolls."
----Sure, and put some cyanide on them, they're for you.
---I knew you'd said that. Well, maybe I am. But at least I don't resign!
Right. Because hacks only think of themselves.
---So? I told you I had sympathy for the underdog. That wasn't spin.
I don't care if it was spin or not. It is against the very position of a conservative that you defined.
Another flip from you.
---Please, the only reason I debate you is because you amuse me.
I wouldn't call the beating you take a debate, but if you want to delude yourself further, go ahead.
----Sure, and put some cyanide on them, they're for you.
Awwww.... Flipper's mommy tries to protect her little baby. Isn't that sweet?
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