Tuesday, February 21, 2012

Are lies protected free speech?

A libel is an example of a lie and it has never been regarded as protected
Xavier Alvarez stood up at a public meeting and called himself a wounded war veteran who had received the top military award, the Medal of Honor. He was lying about his medal, his wounds and his military service, but he wasn't the first man to invent war exploits.

He was, however, one of the first people prosecuted under a 2006 federal law aimed at curbing false claims of military valor.

Concerns that the law improperly limits speech and turns people into criminals for things they say, rather than do, are at the heart of the Supreme Court's review of his case and the Stolen Valor Act.

Civil liberties groups, writers, publishers and news media outlets, including The Associated Press, have told the justices they worry the law, and especially the administration's defense of it, could lead to more attempts by government to regulate speech.

Alvarez made his claims by way of introducing himself as an elected member of the Three Valleys Municipal Water District in Pomona, California. There is nothing to suggest that he received anything in exchange or that listeners especially believed him.

Even Alvarez' lawyers acknowledged their client sometimes has trouble telling the truth. But the lies Alvarez told harmed no one, they said, so what he did couldn't be considered fraud.

A three-judge panel of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco struck down the law as an unconstitutional restraint on free speech and said the government might instead invest in an awards database that would make it harder for people to lay claim to medals they never won.

Last month, the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver upheld the law in a separate case, saying the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution which guarantees freedom of speech does not always protect false statements.

Source

24 comments:

Anonymous said...

Libel is a defamatory comment about others that hurts their reputations which can cause them damages. If you agree with criminalizing lies, then men would be s ubject to crimes for lying to women to get them into bed. Politicians wouldn't even be able to open their mouths.

Bird of Paradise said...

Politicians lie all the time just look at OBAMA when ever his mouth is open

Anonymous said...

It looks like the 9th Circus got one right; Supreme Robes, get ready.

-L

Anonymous said...

So fraud is protected speach??? If you are lying, you are doing it to gain something through deceit. This is not the purpose of free speach.

Bird on a Wire said...

"If you are lying, you are doing it to gain something through deceit."

Yeah, like getting elected to public office.

Anonymous said...

Or you could always be a real man, show some integrity, and actually not lie. Believe it or not, not all of us lie.

Anonymous said...

Right, and sex would end forever if you told the truth.

It's like how often relatives will lie to relatives about medical conditions to not overly worry them. "Sure you'll survive" when they know the person has terminal cancer.

Doctors use to not even tell the patient they had cancer because there was nothing they coudl do, and telling them would cause distress. So doctors used to lie to their patients all the time.

And what about women? You think any woman is telling the truth when they say "No, I really don't want anything for Valentines day". Shoudl you presecute them for that obvious lie?

Anonymous said...

God is great. God is good. Whoops, never mind. I lied.

Anonymous said...

It's not suprising the MSM would want the law struck down. Without lying, they would be out of business. As for the 9th Circus, their decisions are not worth talking about, as they tend to be as bizarre as the state they're in.

Suppose you lied and told someone you were, say, a police officer, or an attorney? Is that free speech? Actually, it's a crime, (criminal impersonation) and criminal acts are not protected by the Constitution. Impersonating a member of the US Military is a crime.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:51 said...
"Or you could always be a real man, show some integrity, and actually not lie. Believe it or not, not all of us lie..."

Good point Anon. I've always found it unnecessary to lie. If someone expects you to tell the truth, they'll believe what you say so there's no reason to lie.

And, if someone is expecting you to lie, it doesn't matter what you say. They won't believe you, so why bother lying.

Anonymous said...

Anon 3:55 - you are right that criminal acts are not protected by the Constitution. But this is self-evident, if they are protected by the Constitution they cannot be criminal.
Lying is not the same as fraud. Obtaining a benefit by deceit is widely considered to be illegal. However, simple lies are not generally considered criminal or else we would all be guilty to one degree or another.
I will be interested to see if the Supreme takes it on and what they make of it.

Dman said...

I have mixed feelings about this issue. I completely understand (and perhaps even agree with) the "slippery slope argument" of "if you make it a crime to lie, where do you draw the line?" (e.g. penis size, breast implants, "does this dress make me look fat," etc.). But in cases such as those, the lie does not "deprive" anything from anybody else. In the case of lies about medals, military service, college degrees, etc., the lies cheapen or "deprive" those truly deserving of the honor, credit, goodwill, esteem etc. which they have righfully earned. Perhaps the way to deal with these folks is not with criminal law but with civil law? Class action suits? If I claim to be a MoH recipient, and I'm not, perhaps the real MoH winners or their families would like a bit of my savings account. I'm sure there is no shortage of lawyers who would jump at the chance to earn some easy money. Just my thoughts on the matter.

Anonymous said...

Anon 7:09 said, "However, simple lies are not generally considered criminal or else we would all be guilty to one degree or another."

And there is the real problem: You accept "simple lies" as being legitimate. A lie is a lie. Deceit is deceit. We could argue the finer points of where to draw the line, but the fact is that once you view lies--any lies--as acceptable, you have crossed a line which only hurts others and yourself.

Be a REAL man and STOP LYING!

Oh, and as far as sex goes, why not simply show your partner some deep and real respect, love, and passion instead of focusing on a big dick or big tits? Sex is 90% mental and 10% physical. Master the mental part, and the physical part will follow.

Anonymous said...

Lies stop being innocent and can become criminal depending on the intent, as in, lying to your girlfriend or lying to a government agent. They're both just lies, but with different intent. Now, which will get you in more trouble? I'll leave that one to you.

Anonymous said...

I love it when liberals claim to be devout christians. That lie really is one of my favorites.

Anonymous said...

"devout Christians" are those that just define "Christianity" any way that suits them - usually as a cover for whatever prejudices that consumes them most at the time! Now it seems to be an obsession with homosexuality or a weird view of "evolution".

Anonymous said...

@Anon 4:26, I claim to be a "devout Christian" not because I am against homosexuality or evolution, or because I have any all-consuming obsession or agenda. I do so because of my faith in my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ who died on the cross for your and my sins. I believe that after thousands of years of God revealing Himself to Man supernaturally, and Man rejecting Him, God decided to reveal Himself to Man as a Man--in a way that He could communicate with us as a peer. And as a peer, He gave us a simple and direct plan. God gave us a choice, and I have made mine. Have you?

Anonymous said...

Come on, do you honestly think Bill Clinton or Hillary clinton believe in God? Obama even for that matter. They just say it because they think people want to hear it, so they'll start talking about "my faith" or whatever when they want to get elected. Obama believes in the flying spaghetti monster... Not a chance hillary believes in god, but they'll start paying homage to religion, becuase they are lying.

Go Away Bird said...

Here comes 1984 and Big Brother Oh how you must feel like poor Winston Smith

Anonymous said...

8:13 AM - like I said, you are defining Christianity according to your own personal view-point, as does every other so-called Christian, though that may be very different to you (hence the countless sects and denominations, or nuanced views within any of them).

Anonymous said...

4:02 AM said, "like I said, you are defining Christianity according to your own personal view-point, as does every other so-called Christian.

I define Christianity as it is written in the Bible, the definitive source for Christian teaching. Pretty much ANY Christian denomination would agree with my basic definition.

That you do not believe is not my problem. It is between you and God.

Anonymous said...

Lies should never be justified.

Anonymous said...

7:54 Christianity is not defined in the Bible. If you mean following the example and injunctions of the Jesus character, then Christians may claim to do that but differ considerably in what that means in their personal lives, as obviously they cannot do exactly as Jesus did or what he said his followers should do, apart from simply "believing" in him (as the way the truth and the light). Some Christians don't even think Jesus was divine, for a start.
Your last sentence needs to define what "God" is that you say I don't "believe".

Anonymous said...

Of course I meant to type "Life" not "Light".