Pregame Prayers at Pee Wee Football Games Are Out of Bounds, Florida father Says
We read:
"Football and prayer don't belong in the same backfield, says a Florida dad who wants his hometown to stop a Pee Wee football league from having kids perform voluntary pregame prayers.
Louie Fromm, an assistant coach for the Holmes County Pee Wee Football Association, formally requested on Monday that the Vernon, Fla., City Council end the league's traditional 50-yard-line pregame prayer ritual, alleging that his and his son's First Amendment rights are being violated.
League officials say they are a private organization that takes no government money, and the city has no right to prevent them from saying prayers on the field before games. But Fromm says the league may be private, but the field on which it plays its games isn't. It's public property, Fromm says, and the city must order the pregame prayers to stop.
Source
The league could well decide that it doesn't want his kid -- and then there would be no-one to be offended by the prayers. The father is just using his kid as a tool, which is pretty low.
16 comments:
why such an anti-Christian atmosphere from this sad angry parent?
If it was a Islamic prayer, how would the previous poster feel? Sports is to develop teamwork, and excluding others by making the prayer so-called volentary, is exclusion and destroying teamwork.
There is nothing anti-Christian about the parent who objects to prayers on the sports field. These prayers put his child in the position of either submitting or being singled out for ostracism.
To object to Christian prayer at a venue to which people have come for the specific purpose of the prayer would be anti-Christian but to object to a prayer that is forced upon others in a place that has nothing to do with prayer is perfectly reasonable.
I accept that Christianity, unlike Islam, has come a long way from its barbaric history but it remains rather agressive. People who are not Christians do not like the presumption that they ought to be willing to participate in Christian prayer when they have come to a place for an entirely different purpose, like playing sport.
Using Reductio ad Absurdem; under this father's rationale, the clergy would be prohibited from praying at funerals in our National cemeteries. You right to pray exists even in our public parks. (At least until now.)
Oh "Anonymous", I begin to see why you need to hide your name. The method of Reductio ad Absurdum (and please note the spelling for next time you refer to this type of argument) is a mathematical proof technique. You have used the expression completely out of context.
Odd that you should have chosen to use this expression to me because I happen to be a professor of mathematics.
Nor is there any suggestion in my earlier letter that could lead to your conclusion (which, I agree, is absurd) that clergy would be forbidden to pray in public parks. Focus on the issue being discussed here. Boys meet to play sport and part of the organized bill of fare is a prayer service to which the boys may or may not be affiliated. Any boy who does not wish to participate must make a visible withdrawal and be exposed to ridicule from the rest of the team. To object to such a situation does not imply that a person is anti-Chistian.
People who are not Christians do not like the presumption that they ought to be willing to participate in Christian prayer when they have come to a place for an entirely different purpose, like playing sport.
And people who are Christian do not like the presumption that they cannot pray because someone is 1) offended or 2) may feel ostracized.
No one is forcing this young man to pray. No one is forcing his father to pray.
The father's "offense" does not legally override the other player's and other family's right to pray in any public venue on their own time and at their own choosing.
seperation of sports and state. It says so right there in the constitution if you read between the lines with a twisted enough look...
they have a freedom and a right from the constitution to practice their religion, this father is way out of bounds.
and the courts agree with me.
Enjoy your right to pray now or not to pray now, if we go under sharia law, like odamna wants us to, people will have no recourse but to pray to the muslim demon god or loose your head. Michiganstan is on its way there.
Why don't you go back to Sukmydikistan?
My intial thoughts were quite sympathetic to Jonathan's position. It might well be difficult and ostracising to this pee wee football player to stand against the public prayer or withdraw himself. Perhaps there are other pee-wees who feel similarly and don't want to rock the boat. However, if the kids want to pray and they initiate it themselves - no problems, let them pray if they want and the ones who don't can do some stretches. I just don't think it should any element of compulsion.
I see no compulsion at all here. If the kid doesn't want to pray, or if the father doesn't want the kid to pray, the kid has every right to stand with his team silently and not pray or not stand with his team while they pray. Simple as that.
If he truly does not believe in prayer, then it is his right to take a stand and not pray. But he must also allow his teammates to exercise their rights of religious expression. If the kid is ostracized, then it is really just a life lesson that he needs to learn that not everyone will agree with what he believes in.
1) There is no compunction upon the minor to be involved in this particular Pee-Wee football league. If the father objects to this league's traditions, he is free to enroll his child in another sports program.
2) Public Accommodation rulings clearly state that the City cannot refuse use of the Parks to one group based on their private beliefs or religious affiliations without preventing ALL groups from using the facilities. If the Pee-Wee Football group wants to pray before games, the City cannot stop them.
3) There is no violation of the child's rights here because it is a PRIVATE organization. Freedom of Association covers the group's right to pray and associate with those who want to pray.
4) I would feel no different if the group wanted to stop games mid-stream and face Mecca for the evening call to prayer. That's called Freedom OF Religion.
5) What this father wants is Freedom FROM Religion, which is covered under his right to NOT associate with the group in question.
OK, "Stan B" for president.
Who's with me?!?
My son played in the CYO "Catholic Youth Sports" league for years and they never had any problems. Their were several players who were not catholic on his teem and they just didn't pray with the rest of the teem. They also played some of their games in public schools. Never was there a problem and i never even dreamed there would be. Guess times are changing.
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