Why not rip up the Koran? Like Jews, Muslims really do believe in a single supreme God. Christians just have a mixed-up "triune" God more reminiscent of ancient Egypt or modern India than the God of Israel
These atheists are almost certainly hard Leftists so I wonder what it would take for Leftists to be hostile to the Koran? After all, there are heaps of Muslim doctrines that contradict things that Leftists claim to believe in big-time -- the equality of women, the lovableness of homosexuals, the separation of church and State etc.
It's hard to avoid the conclusion that Leftist beliefs are pure hypocrisy and that Leftism is instead just one big hate-fest that picks on opportune targets. Obama has even gone back to that most primitive of Leftist hates: Blaming "the rich" for America's woes.
Over the years, believers and atheists have had their fair share of spats. But, as time progresses, it seems that the tit for tat arguments that often season debates between the two parties are increasing in their ferocity.
Over the weekend, Backyard Skeptics, an atheist group out in Orange County, California, decided to rip apart photocopied pages of the Christian Bible in an effort to rail against the book’s “immoral” teachings. Beliefnet’s Rob Kerby has more:[The group] says the demonstration is based loosely on Thomas Jefferson’s Bible – an 86-page book that omits huge chunks of the New Testament, according the Religion News Service. Jefferson’s Bible, which the Smithsonian National Museum of American History is restoring, chronicles Jesus’ life but leaves out the Resurrection and all miracles the Bible says Jesus performed.
Bruce Gleason, the group’s director, explained the Backyard Skeptics’ opposition to the holy book. “We’re not there to burn the Bible or desecrate,” he said. “But there are plenty verses in the Bible that if you did any of those things today, you’d be thrown in jail immediately.” He continued:“We want to make this a better world for secular and humanistic values. We don’t believe prayer works. We don’t believe religion adds anything except a sense of false hope.”
In actions that the Washington Post’s Brad Hirschfield called “hypocritical” (after all, these are “free thinkers” who are purposely destroying something they disagree with), these non-believers decided to hold the very public demonstration to showcase their disrespect for Christian scriptures.
To make sure that people would see the event regardless of their location, Backyard Skeptics even aired it live on UStream.com. Hirschfield responds to all of this, writing:Fanatical atheism is no worse and no better than fanatical religion, though it may be more bitterly ironic. There is something pretty odd, dare I say hypocritical, about a bunch of people who call themselves “freethinkers” and “humanists” not only verbally abusing people of faith, but actually tearing up verses from the Bible as an act of protest…
And in the Baptist Press, Kelly Boggs discusses the lack of media coverage the event has received:If the organization were Christian and ripping pages from the Quran or destroying the book “Heather Has Two Mommies,” it likely would have garnered media attention from sea to shining sea, with the Christians portrayed as insensitive bigots or intolerant censors.
Considering the negative attention a Florida pastor brought upon himself over his Koran-burning exploits, it‘s a wonder this hasn’t warranted more media scrutiny.
Source
26 comments:
“We don’t believe religion adds anything except a sense of false hope.”
Be it true or false, religion, and particularly Bible-based Christianity, provides hope to an otherwise fallen and corrupt world.
Just what hope does the Atheist have?
You are thrust into the world without your prior consent through a traumatic birth process. You must deal with family dysfunction. You work hard for little compensation, gratitude, or recognition. You turn to bad habits to relieve the stress, pain, and anxiety that daily life throws at you. Then you die and your body rots. End of story. And this is an all too common story.
To the Atheist, how is this life in any way hopeful or comforting? You may as well commit suicide, because life simply isn't worth it. And its finality erases everything about you.
To the Christian, however, there is the hope of eternal peace with God. Is it guaranteed? Technically? No. Through faith? Absolutely.
Here's a quote from C.S. Lewis to ponder: "You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body."
If you conduct your life from this perspective, you will be amazed by God's glorious creation, and you enjoy the adventures that life has to offer, knowing that there is so much more than we as corporal Humans can ever experience.
I have to disagree, sig.
Be it true or false, religion, and particularly Bible-based Christianity, provides hope to an otherwise fallen and corrupt world.
I say that if it's not actually true, then you should not believe it. Paul said the same thing specifically about the resurrection:
if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.
— 1 Corinthians 15:17–19
It's time Christians stopped turning the other cheek.
Christians just have a mixed-up "triune" God more reminiscent of ancient Egypt or modern India than the God of Israel
Jon, the concept of a triune God is in the Old Testament. It's just not nearly as explicit as it is in the New Testament. For example:
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
— Genesis 1:26
“Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
…
Come near to Me, listen to this:
From the first I have not spoken in secret,
From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”
— Isaiah 48:12, 16
The speaker here identifies himself as God (the one who called Israel), then distinguishes himself from "the Lord GOD" and "His Spirit", identifying three persons of God.
There's more, but this should be sufficient to make the point.
Leftists are insane, but not always stupid. It is safe to tear up Bible verses, or even a Torah. But if they did this to a Koran, they know they could be prosecuted for a hate crime, if not targeted for death.
-L
“We don’t believe religion adds anything except a sense of false hope.”
That's odd, I feel the same way about Obama, the envirofascists, leftists in general and so on.
Both Yahweh and Allah started out as one amongst a pantheon of gods and goddesses in their respective areas, but the priests of Yahweh surpressed the other gods and their followers (bull-god worshippers etc.) and especially the female ones like Lilith, insisting there should be no other gods before the jealous male god of war - Yahweh (1st Commandment of Moses).
Likewise Mohammed threw out all the many idols from the Kaaba sanctuary in Mecca except the moon-god Allah.
Wishful thinking and delusional hope is a poor substitute for facing reality and dealing with it like intelligent adults. Children grow out of Santa and the Tooth-fairy, but sadly many so-called adults cannot grow out of fanciful religions, and invisible friends.
L: Thats what makes them both pansies and hypocrites.
I wonder how these heathens would react to someone ripping upa copy of THE ORIGION OF THE SPECIES or THE GOD DELUSION?
I have yet to figure out the 'evangelical atheist.' I know people who are atheist and other people's religious choices do NOT affect them because, well, they do NOT affect them. The evangelical atheist is the one who proselytizes atheism to the world. It isn't sufficient to believe they way they do, but they must try to invalidate everyone else's belief systems.
Anon 3:50 AM, Jehovah God is the one, true God who is the Creator. He is not one of many in a pantheon of gods nor is he one-in-the-same as Allah. He precedes the contrived gods that you describe, and He will prevail after you are long dead and gone.
While it is certainly your choice to believe otherwise, come the day of judgement, may God spare you.
Actually the only persons burning/shredding/otherwise destroying anyone's book of fairy tales are shameless attention whores. All of them just looking for some instant fame by offending someone. And you lot play along like good little LOLcows.
Rule of the Internet #14-Never argue with a troll. It means they won.
Perhaps all you religious people should start applying that IRL.
We would, but what good would it do? The Left railroads legislation that is blatantly anti-Christian, and we are expected to just take it? Nice try.
Troll,
Wishful thinking and delusional hope is a poor substitute for facing reality and dealing with it like intelligent adults. Children grow out of Santa and the Tooth-fairy, but sadly many so-called adults cannot grow out of fanciful religions, and invisible friends.
Your thoughts on socialism and atheism mirror my own.
BTW, what did come before the big bang? Matter can be neither created nor destroyed, so where did the matter of the universe come from, then? Had to be from outside our universe then, according to the laws of physics.
And if it's self-organizing (e.g. intelligent life, per the blind watchmaker thesis) had it been orgianizing itself outside our universe for eons before the big bang took place?
I mean, you seem to have all the answers...but you never ask the questions.
I'm a Christian but their actions do not offend me and I have no desire for 'revenge' or violence of any kind. They're just ignorant, one day they'll know the truth and I pray sooner rather than later.
To: Use the Name, Luke
In Genesis 1:26 you overlook that this is a late passage which uses the plural form "elohim" for the name of God, unlike early passages which use "Yahveh" for the name of God. So the "our" is simply in agreement with the subject. Elohim literally means "gods" but is simply a polite plural. The idea of actual multiple gods would be anathema. See Psalm 83:18
The order of the books of the Bible is not chronological
The word "trinity" or any description of it is not found in either the new or the old testament.
It is just a theological compromise imposed at the Council of Nicea by the Emperor Constantine and was proposed by an Egyptian: Athanasius
"Jehovah God is the one, true God who is the Creator."
Proof, please.
"Proof" isn't required in the religious mindset - it's just what makes you feel good or what your parents or other authority figures have told you - and they got it from the culture they lived in - which had a long history of distorted religious "evolution". Yes that's right - religious evolution is much like biological evolution or even language evolution, etc. etc. in its basic principles.
Yeah, how could all the myriad sects and denominations of Christianity with all their various dogmas and sometimes mutually exclusive viewpoints, relate to what was going on with the situation in 1st century Judea; and before Saul/Paul got hold of the Jesusalem church; or before the Emperor Constantine and his mother got hold of that; and before the medieval churches of Europe developed it even further - and then came the Reformation and numerous further schisms into all the countless number of independent "churches" preaching their own one true path to the "truth" and "salvation".
"I wonder how these heathens would react to someone ripping upa copy of THE ORIGION OF THE SPECIES or THE GOD DELUSION?"
I could care less. If you buy a book, you can do whatever you want with it (except anything to do with copyright infringement, of course).
Jon,
Elohim literally means "gods" but is simply a polite plural. The idea of actual multiple gods would be anathema.
The classic verse which states the singularity of God is Deuteronomy 6:4.
“Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one!”
The Hebrew word translated as "God" is Elohim, the exact same word as used in Genesis 1:26, right down to all the "jots and tittles". And the word translated as "LORD" is Yahvew (actually, just yhvw). This verse directly equates the two.
The word "trinity" or any description of it is not found in either the new or the old testament.
You are correct that the word "trinity" is not used. However, as I pointed out, the concept appears in the Old Testament in the verses I quoted from Isaiah (among other places). It's also discussed in various ways throughout the New Testament, occasionally even within a single verse, such as these:
“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,”
— Matthew 28:19
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood:
— 1 Peter 1:2
It is just a theological compromise imposed at the Council of Nicea by the Emperor Constantine and was proposed by an Egyptian: Athanasius.
A) It was not "imposed". It was all but a unanimous decision.
B) re: Athanasius' role: So what? The words used by Athanasius was that the idea of a triune god is “the sense of the Scriptures”. (The "sense of the Scriptures" is why I've been quoting verses to show that the concept of trinity is actually biblical.) My source mentions that he appealed to John 1:18; 6:46; 8:42; 10:30; 14:10, among others. (That particular source doesn't mention what other passages he referred to.)
“I and the Father are one.”
— John 10:30
This was certainly not an idea that originated with Athanasius. Remember, the Jews explicitly had Jesus crucified because he claimed equality with God.
“You have heard the blasphemy; how does it seem to you?” And they all condemned Him to be deserving of death.
— Mark 14:64
And what was their definition of "blasphemy"? This verse makes it clear:
The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
— John 10:33
Also:
And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven.” Now some of the scribes were sitting there, questioning in their hearts, “Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
— Mark 2:5–7
Note that the scribes were correct in that only God can forgive sins. By claiming to be able to forgive sins, he was equating himself with God. (He then demonstrated his authority by healing the man.)
The Jews definitely understood (but rejected) Jesus' claims to be God.
BTW, the Council of Nicea was formed to address the heresy of Arianism which taught that Jesus was a created being and not actually equal to God. The only legitimate way to resolve the issue is to study what the Scriptures actually say about the matter and working out the actual relationship taught by them. In the end — contrary to Dan Brown's empty assertion — the final decision wasn't even close, with only two council members siding with Arius.
The courage that people have is demonstrated, among other things, but the enemies they choose to resist vs those they kowtow to. Most people would fling away, if not crush, a gecko that invaded their picnic basket - very few would kick in the snout an 1,100 lb. grizzy bear for invading their picnic basket. The answer is fairly obvious - the bear would shred you limb from limb.
Insulting, degrading, dishonoring, or destroying a holy book is a great way to express disdain for the religion that regards that text as holy (and in a free society, should be an act that is within the law). But it takes no courage to so dishonor the scriptures of Christians, who are taught to pray for those who abuse them and to turn the other cheek. Muslims, on the other hand, are prone to protesting against the dishonoring of their scripture, usually by small, symbolic acts such as cutting off the hands, and indeed even the heads of blasphemers. Show me your courage. Treat their holy book with such contempt publicly. Or just continue to whine and grovel as a coward in your corner as you throw childish tantrums against Christianity.
Blow up your TV
Throw away your paper
Move to the country
Build you a home
Plant a little garden
Eat a lot of peaches
Try and find Jesus
On your own
Good advice.
these atheists remind me of Nazis burning books. well, it doesn't offend me but it sure hurts them.
Looks like you may have ended the discussion or just "shot yourself in the foot" by "Godwin's Law".
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