Arizona Man Fights to Keep Gadsden Flag Flying Outside His Home
We read:
"An Arizona man fighting to keep a historical American flag flying outside his home vows he will not take it down unless a judge orders him to.
Andy McDonel of Leveen, Ariz., says he received a letter from his homeowner's association, Avalon Village Community Association, on Aug. 6 instructing him to "remove debris" from his suburban Phoenix home within 10 days or face a $25 fine.
"They were talking about the Gadsden flag," McDonel told Fox News on Wednesday. "I fly it to honor the Founding Fathers of America, you know, the perseverance they went through. They sacrificed their honor, their lives and their fortune to establish this great nation."
McDonel says he's been told his 3-by-5 flag doesn't meet requirements, but he cited Arizona statutes that allow for the display of U.S. flags, military flags, the Arizona state flag or tribal nation flags. Unless a judge or a relevant authority orders him to take the flag down, McDonel said, he'll continue to fly it.
"This falls under a military service flag," McDonel said. "I think they're associating it with a political movement going on right now. The history and the significance of the flag far supersedes any political movement that's going on."
Source
16 comments:
This is typical of most homeowner's associations. They tend to be the rebirth of the Nazi SS. Since this great flag is clearly not "debris", unless you're a leftist which is exactly what most of these associations are comprised of, the law is clearly on Andy's side, and he should fight. If you don't know it's long, and very proud history, take a look.
http://www.gadsden.info/history.html
I don't like this as much as anyone, but when you move into a home, you are usually presented with the terms of the HOA. If you have a problem with the terms, then don't live there. It's pretty simple. I don't see this being any different than the muslim woman at disneyland who wants to wear her hijab while working. In both instances, they were told the rules a long time ago and only now that some time has past that they want to throw a wrench in the monkey works.
Anon 4:12 AM, while I agree with your comment, are HOAs legally permitted to trump state laws? If a statute permits something, does the HOA have any legal ground to prohibit same?
-sig
Anon 4:12 AM, while I agree with your comment, are HOAs legally permitted to trump state laws?
The problem is that the Gadsden flag is not covered under the statute.
Here is the statute:
http://law.justia.com/arizona/codes/title33/01808.html
A. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, an association shall not prohibit the outdoor display of any of the following:
1. The American flag or an official or replica of a flag of the United States army, navy, air force, marine corps or coast guard by an association member on that member's property if the American flag or military flag is displayed in a manner consistent with the federal flag code (P.L. 94-344; 90 Stat. 810; 4 United States Code sections 4 through 10).
2. The POW/MIA flag.
3. the Arizona state flag.
4. An Arizona Indian nations flag.
The gentleman in question is trying to say that the Gadsden flag is a "service" flag when clearly it is not.
When you live under a HOA you're sacrificing some freedoms for the sake of others. In a HOA community the grass has to be cut, the garbage picked, no dirty cars can be left rusting in the driveway, there are noise rules, etc, etc. etc.
Sometimes the rules are annoying, like the time I had to take time off work to wait for a repairman just because no repairs can be done on the weekends, but overall I am happy living under HOA. I just hope they don't raise my association fees this year. When they reach the $500s you start wondering why aren't you using that money to rent a room somewhere? Maybe the new American dream needs to be renting a home and investing the rest of your money in a diversified portfolio.
sig - In a word: Yes.
If you decide to go to work somewhere, do you then have the right to say anything you like to anyone at anytime? No you don't. You will quickly get fired if you happen to say the wrong thing to the wrong person at the wrong time. These types of things happen all the time. I even had to fire a couple of people for not being able to keep their mouths shut.
Now did I violate those people's constitutional right to free speech? No, because that only comes into play when the government gets involved. As a free citizen, or in the case of the HOA, they are a free assembly of citizens who decide on a variety of bylaws a community must live by. So long as those rules don't run into direct contradiction (such as all dead bodies must be reported to the HOA, instead of the police), then there should be no problem.
Because the CC&R requirements do not oppose state law, rather it modifies what the state has already taken action on, then there is no legal standing to say that the state allows this, therefore my HOA should as well.
If these types of things really piss you off, then don't move in. If you do, then perhaps you should join the board to change the bylaws. Or if they are really ordering you to commit acts which the state deems as criminal, call in the cops and have them arrested. Otherwise just shut up and take it because you chose to live there, so now you have to accept the consequences of those actions.
Or should we just do what we want, regardless of what those in authority say.
The Gadsden has been flown on the bow mast of U S Navy ships in port . What legal status would that be .
ISHGEBOR the river rat
What legal status would that be .
A non US flag; a non military service flag; a non POW flag; and a non Arizona State flag.
In other words, for the purpose of the statute, it is not what the Gadsden flag is, it is what it is not.
I have to ask. Exactly where is he--with respect to, say, the Gadsden Purchase?
And the issue of HOA's is they can change the rules and there isn't anything you can do about it.
Democracy at its worst.
I live in a condo with a HOA too but this HOA has chosen not to be a set of petty tyrants and only loosely enforce a relaxed set of rules allowing a lot of personal freedom in the very limited space we each have.
The point is that the HOA will have the character of the people you elect to run it, choose wisely or suffer the results.
The resident is probably being dishonest or disingenuous, now that this flag has been adopted by the tea-party; so it now has a current political message whatever its history as a flag.
i bet if he had a star and crescent flag it would be ok with the ass-sociation.. they would be worried about being beheaded if they made him move it. Maybe he should declare his home a mosque than the judenratt mayor of new york would give him money.
hmm, he's told to remove trash, and does so.
Leaves flag in place because it's no trash, case closed?
Hey Anon 3:03.....your hood and sheets are ready for your Klan meeting tonight.
hey anon 12:34...never mind i will take in the source, probably a muslimratt.
Plain and simple, if it was a Muslim, he'd get a pass.
-sig
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