Thursday, October 06, 2011

WHY does Fred Phelps convey his message in such an obnoxious way?

I think I know. And to know you have to learn a little more about him than knowing him as the guy who upsets bereaved military families.

The key to Fred as I see it is that he is just about the last of a long line of preachers who go back thousands of years. He preaches a demanding God rather than a God who just goes around helping people. And the message of a demanding God was the norm within the memory of people still alive.

It's only in the second half of the 20th century that a drastic and sudden watering down of the old faith occurred. And it's not only in the mainstream churches that the old Gospel has been transformed. Even most evangelicals seem to have succumbed to the new message -- though it varies in degree of course. The old binary God who was both a God of love and a God of judgement has largely disappeared. And Fred is one of the few holdouts from the old religion.

And he knows that. And it makes him desperate to see how few people now hear what he regards as the true gospel. So he goes to extraordinary lengths to get attention to his message.

As an atheist I have no dog in the fight concerned but if you want to step into a time machine and hear the sort of preaching that your grandparents heard routinely in their youth, click on the video below. It's still pretty powerful preaching.



12 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow, That video was acutally entertaining.

Anonymous said...

People have a right to their religious beliefs; although there are some that are pretty extreme. They do not have a right, however, to try to push those beliefs onto others who do not want them !

Anonymous said...

Fred Phelps is certainly irreverent and offensive to many. But he has the Constitutional right to express his beliefs, just as do those who disagree with him, and while I personally disagree with his approach, I will fight to the death to defend his right to express those beliefs.

Anonymous said...

Why do good, intelligent people like Steve Jobs die and evil scumbags like Phelps and his henchmen live a hateful life? I pray for the death of Phelps and his ilk.

Anonymous said...

Just shows how many ways you can interpret the Bible, both Old and New Testaments; which shows it's just a "buffet" for anyone to find whatever they want to believe, and find verses to "prove" it.

Use the Name, Luke said...

Literally anything can be taken out of context and twisted into something else. It's not just the Bible.

Heck, just two days ago, Obama just did exactly that with something Reagan said.

I could even do it with your comment. Example: "You claimed the Bible is actually food." <- No you didn't actually write that, but someone who wants to deliberately "reinterpret" your words could force-fit that meaning into them without working very hard.

The problem is not anything specific to "Writing A" or "Writing B" or "Speech C". The true problem is willful misinterpretation (sometimes unconsciously) by someone for their own reasons.

BTW, I didn't watch this video, but I did see an interview with Phelps' daughter. Her tactic (certainly learned from her father) was to cherry pick quotes from the Bible, while ignoring balancing passages. That's a logical fallacy. It's also called "lying by omission."

stinky said...

Anon 2:52,

or more likely a cryptic/closet theist

You can't refute his arguments so you have to make up other ones out of thin air?

Game, set and match to JJR; this one's no contest.

Use the Name, Luke said...

Ooooohhhh Goody. Phelps is planning to picket Steve Jobs' funeral. Idiots.

Steve has now received the result of his choices. All they're doing is rubbing salt in people's wounds.

By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
— 1 John 2:5–6

While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?”
On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

— Matthew 9:10–13

If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men. Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written, “VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY,” says the Lord. “BUT IF YOUR ENEMY IS HUNGRY, FEED HIM, AND IF HE IS THIRSTY, GIVE HIM A DRINK; FOR IN SO DOING YOU WILL HEAP BURNING COALS ON HIS HEAD.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
— Romans 12:18–21

(Note: All uppercase indicates a quotation from the Old Testament.)

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
— 1 Corinthians 13:4–5

Is Fred Phelps demonstrating love? Is he acting as Christ acted? I think it's obvious that the answer is No.

Aspergers.life said...

The 'problem' with Jon is that his brain isn't awash with political correctness.

Anonymous said...

Luke you are in danger of being regarded as a spam-artist with so much quoting from texts that in any case most people here are aware of. Anyways, you don't convince non-christians simply quoting the Bible, which can be regarded as just "white noise".

Anonymous said...

If the message was powerful you wouldn't need to preach it hard. The words should speak for themselves. The louder you yell the more people get annoyed and start ignoring you. Maybe what Phelps says is dumb and untrue and nobody cares.

Anonymous said...

As a touch of irony, I understand Phelps' wife did the following:
She wrote: "Westboro will picket his funeral. He had a huge platform; gave God no glory & taught sin. MT @AP:
Apple co-founder Steve Jobs has died at 56."

I fear I might be turned to stone (but I am prepared to take the risk) when I tell you that Phelps tweeted
this freely expressed bilge-tinged bagatelle on her...iPhone."